Vu+ 4k SE: channels missing and crashes too

[digitl]

All of a sudden there's something gone very wrong on my Vu+ 4k SE in that when it boots and gets to the first Openvix splash screen there are several loud clicks through the TV sound then, when I scan the two FBC tuners, it finds BSkyB channels but it doesn't find any Freesat channels. The terrestrial scan works without any issues.

Once scanned, and when I press then epg, the box crashes after just a few seconds.

According to my WoS receipt, the LNB is a 'GT-Sat GT-S1DCSS24 SCR/dCSS Single Cable Unicable II LNB SCR24 with 1x Legacy Outputs' and the box is set up for that though the settings file I've attached shows it as a 'GT-S3DCSS24'.

I've attached a series of images that I hope will provide some idea of what might be wrong and I've added the latest crash report.

Any help will be gratefully received.

[abu baniaz]

This isn't a unicable issue, it is an image issue. It seems you are combining three issues:

Not finding Freesat chanenls.
Crashing.
Tuner configuration uncertainty

How are you scanning? Please provide details of the scanning options you are using.

There is no crashlog attached, can you please attach it. It seems that this is similar to the issue reported here:
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?66623-System-crashes-on-selecting-final-channel-in-my-HD-bouquet

You have shown what the software tuner configuration on the receiver is. You have not described the phyisical hardware connected to the tuners. Both must match. It seems to me that you have set your tuners incorrectly. You have told it it has two signal wires form the Unicable LNB. Have you got a splitter for the unicable output or are you using one universal output on one tuner and one unicable output on the other?

Your tuners are not configured to best use your unicable LNB. And you have posted two different tuner configurations for tuner A.

[digitl]

Thanks for getting back to me.

I attached Enigma2_debug_2024-06-20_14-19-36 as I thought that that would include the crash details. I'll try to find a separate crash log.

I'm scanning using the Scan option in the Menu after I've set the tuners to Simple. Advanced gets no channels, Simple finds some.

It looks (to this uneducated eye) that the connections to the tuners may be the issue. The LNB has a shotgun cable coming from it and the guy who installed it put an f-plug on each cable and both are connected, one to the satellite A input and the other to the B input. Do I have to find just the one that's got the Unicable signal on it and leave the other tucked out of the way?

(Running before I can walk/showing my lack of understanding, but you mention a splitter. If the Unicable signal is on just one of the cables is it possible to use a splitter to any advantage?)

[abu baniaz]

That is an incorrect description of scanning. Post a picture please. Signal finder is not the same and a waste of time for your purposes. It comes into its own for individual transponders. You should use manual scan and then select single satellite.

No need to use a splitter, but might be handy for your other receivers.

Top F-plug socket on card = Tuner A
Bottom F-plug socket = Tuner B

Identify which cable is connected to the universal output and which is connected to the unicable one. We can then go from there. I am sure if you use Auto diseqc, it should fail on the Unicable one and pass with the the universal one. It sounds like you have the universal output to Tuner A.

[abu baniaz]

If you ever move your receiver, can you get a clear picture of the back. Not important.

Please find a picture attached to show the tuners/letters. It is of an Ultimo 4K, but should serve its purpose. People always seem to get mixed up between tuner cards and the actual tuners because of the text on the bottom.

66511


The tuner attached to the universal output should be set as:
simple,
single,
28.2.

The tuner attached to the unicable output should be set as you have pictured above barring the letter issue.

For the scan, use manual scan and select the tuner you want to use. Then select single satellite. Not just a single transponder.

66512

[digitl]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I use the Autotune option for tuning. The images of the signal finder were to illustrate signal strength in an attempt to provide as much (hopefully relevant) information as possible.

I'll sort out the cables and get the image you wanted.

[abu baniaz]

The transponders have different strengths. Lots of people check a strong transponder using signal finder, but still have an issue receiving some services. Getting them to understand the difference is sometimes impossible.
If you use manual scan, single satellite and get about 800 channels, dish and LNB are fine.

Once we get the wires identified, we can configure all 8 tuners. Please note the edit to my previous post about using splitter.
More details here:
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59981-Guide-to-using-Unicable

Tuner configuration here. you will have to adapt to your physical setup. Looks like you got the gist of it. Just need to make use of the "Connected through another tuner" function.
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?60640-GT-Sat-GT-dLNB1DY-and-tuner-configuration

[abu baniaz]

@digitl
Have you made any progress on this?

[digitl]

Apologies for leaving this hanging but 'Real Life' intervened and I was only able to get back to it this afternoon.

I have checked the feed cables and only one will provide any channels and so I have left that installed on tuner A by itself.

I have had to do multiple scans to get Freesat channels available but they finally are, along with a favourites bouquet which I set up in dreamboxEdit. I saved a set of screens to show the route I took to get there and they're attached along with the image of the back of the box you asked for.

Recordings are saved to an internal SSD unless they're for my wife in which case the go to a share on my NAS to be watched on a couple of ZgemmaH7 boxes which I've set to Client Mode. Things are a little unstable/stuttery on them and all three boxes are a little slow to find the channel when it's changed with them needing a button press or two to get the sound up.

The one issue remaining is an inability to schedule concurrent recordings on the Vu+. When setting them with the green button in the epg, the picture starts to break up, the Vu+ soon reports conflicts and several channels become unavailable. Pictures also lack the kind of clarity typical of low bandwidth. No doubt I've not got something right.

[abu baniaz]

Can you please post a picture of Menu, Information, Devices.

Your Tuner configuration is inadequate and wrong. You are using internal loop through instead of configuring the 8 tuners to be independent. This is why the clashes are happening. Please read the thread I linked to. Gist of it is below.

Tuner A , this is correct .
Tuners B-H, set these like A , i.e Unicable. For "connected to through another tuner", Say yes. They are all getting Signal via Tuner A, so select that. They must all have unique SCR numbers.

[abu baniaz]

So this thread is about unicable after all.

Note:
FBC Automatic = Internal loop through when required. The tuner is not independent and tied to the transponder that is in use on non-unicable tuner.

[digitl]

So this thread is about unicable after all.

That and my slips on the steep learning curve! Not just the hardware but also the terminology.

I really do appreciate the time (and patience) you've spent on this. :thumbsup:

[digitl]

Can you please post a picture of Menu, Information, Devices.

Your Tuner configuration is inadequate and wrong. You are using internal loop through instead of configuring the 8 tuners to be independent. This is why the clashes are happening. Please read the thread I linked to. Gist of it is below.

Tuner A , this is correct .
Tuners B-H, set these like A , i.e Unicable. For "connected to through another tuner", Say yes. They are all getting Signal via Tuner A, so select that. They must all have unique SCR numbers.

I had read the thread but hadn't appreciated/understood the 'subtleties' of the way in which B-H needed to have such independent configurations. Fingers crossed I've got it now.

[abu baniaz]

Seems fine. As a final check, can you please issue this command and post back the results:
cat /etc/enigma2/settings | grep config.Nims > /tmp/digitl_tuner_config.txt

With regards to the other receivers:
It may be better for you to supply the other receivers their own signal instead of using the fallback tuner. You will have to use a splitter, you can use them wherever convenient for you. See post 7
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59981-Guide-to-using-Unicable

You can still share mounts between the boxes. But it is not client mode, so may be a bit more configuring needed.

[digitl]

Seems fine. As a final check, can you please issue this command and post back the results:
cat /etc/enigma2/settings | grep config.Nims > /tmp/digitl_tuner_config.txt

With regards to the other receivers:
It may be better for you to supply the other receivers their own signal instead of using the fallback tuner. You will have to use a splitter, you can use them wherever convenient for you. See post 7
https://www.world-of-satellite.com/showthread.php?59981-Guide-to-using-Unicable

You can still share mounts between the boxes. But it is not client mode, so may be a bit more configuring needed.

Delighted to know it seems fine! :thumbsup:

I've had a look at the post you linked to and, if I've understood it, it needs cabling? The Vu+ is in one room downstairs, one Zgemma in another room on the same floor but diagonally across from the Vu+ and the other Zgemma is on the floor above and, again, diagonally across from the Vu+. The only cabling is gigabit Ethernet which, I expect, is unsuitable.

However, we've got two dishes pointing at 28E. One has the Unicable LNB, the other has a quad LNB which feeds a Triax 5 x 8 multiswitch in the loft which then feeds the rooms in question. The three TVs connected to the receivers all have a Freesat (multiswitch) feed and a terrestrial aerial. Could the multiswitch be repurposed/replaced for the Unicable feed and, if so, would the TVs without FBC tuners function?

So many questions!

[abu baniaz]

Your tuner configuration is correct. Hopefully the 8 independent tuners will mean no more conflicts. You cannot use the gigabit cable for dvb signal. Alas, you should have replaced your switch instead of getting the other dish and LNB. Most switches will do legacy (universal) as well as unicable. There are oddities on types of LNBs needed. I am pretty sure I read the Unitron ones need a quad LNB instead of quattro to work in legacy/universal mode. Some switches will take wideband, quad or quattro.

Continue as you are for now. No point wasting money on this if it works. We can revist this later if you need to. You could use the satellite signal wires on the Zgemma instead of the TV as the interface on your E2 receiver is better. That way there is no network lag.

Please note, you don't need FBC tuners for unicable! It is disappointing lots of seasoned users keep perpetuating the misconception that you do. Even a DM 500 from 2006 can use unicable.

[digitl]

Your tuner configuration is correct. Finally, I've got there! Down to your help which has been invaluable.


Hopefully the 8 independent tuners will mean no more conflicts. You cannot use the gigabit cable for dvb signal. Alas, you should have replaced your switch instead of getting the other dish and LNB. Most switches will do legacy (universal) as well as unicable. There are oddities on types of LNBs needed. I am pretty sure I read the Unitron ones need a quad LNB instead of quattro to work in legacy/universal mode. Some switches will take wideband, quad or quattro.

I've had two dishes for several years for reasons that no longer apply so, in my innocence, it appeared easier to install the Unicable LNB on the one that doesn't feed the multiswitch. It's a pity that the well-regarded AV and aerial guy didn't offer any advice. However, you raise a question. With the right multiswitch, fed from the G-Sat (or suitable) LNB's single cable, would the eight cables from the multiswitch serve the FBC tuners in all three boxes along with the non-FBC legacy devices (yes, I've got the message, just being careful though!) and so install 8 independent tuners in each of the boxes to negate the need for Client Mode?


Continue as you are for now. No point wasting money on this if it works. We can revist this later if you need to. You could use the satellite signal wires on the Zgemma instead of the TV as the interface on your E2 receiver is better. That way there is no network lag.

I'll give that a go.


Please note, you don't need FBC tuners for unicable! It is disappointing lots of seasoned users keep perpetuating the misconception that you do. Even a DM 500 from 2006 can use unicable. Erm...got it!

And thanks again for the extreme hand-holding. Much appreciated.

[abu baniaz]

Remind me, how many receivers do you have?
For each receiver, describe the number of tuners and types.

Might be easier to post screenshots of menu, information, devices. Crop out the network drives.

[digitl]

Remind me, how many receivers do you have?
For each receiver, describe the number of tuners and types.

Might be easier to post screenshots of menu, information, devices. Crop out the network drives.

Two ZgemmaH7S boxes and a Vu+ Duo 4k SE.

(I'm still trying to get the NAS mounts set up. Hence the variations!)

[abu baniaz]

Can you please draw a diagram showing all the cabling, receivers and TVs connected to the satellite signal directly.You said you had 8 cables from the multi switch, I'd like to see where they go. Please also include the unicable one. I would like to know if it goes near the multi switch.

The outlets for the cables, are they diplex plates or just f plug sockets.

[digitl]

Can you please draw a diagram showing all the cabling, receivers and TVs connected to the satellite signal directly.You said you had 8 cables from the multi switch, I'd like to see where they go. Please also include the unicable one. I would like to know if it goes near the multi switch.

The outlets for the cables, are they diplex plates or just f plug sockets.

Sorry, I've been out all day so I'm afraid the diagram is very much a quick sketch. All of the feeds from the multiswitch terminate in triplexer plates. The Unicable goes directly to A on the FBC tuner. The Zgemmas are on the same gigabit LAN as the Vu+. The dishes are around a metre away from each other.

Have I given you what you asked for? Does it help?

[abu baniaz]

I was looking for the rooms too so that I could see where the 8 wires go. I am guessing that you have two wires going to 4 rooms.

[digitl]

I was looking for the rooms too so that I could see where the 8 wires go. I am guessing that you have two wires going to 4 rooms.

Ah, each wire goes to a different room. The only one that has two (plus the Unicable) is the Living Room. When I ran them I ran them to cover as many rooms as I could and used triplexer plates to future-proof them. For that reason, other than the Living Room, only three other rooms, two downstairs and one upstairs, have a device on the end of them.

[abu baniaz]

Please redraw the diagram indicating wires so I don't make a hash of this by guessing. Also state which outlets make use of the Aerial and Satellite, which just use aerial

Depending on your cabling, you can:
Use the Zgemmas with just one tuner for satellite. They can use fallback tuner if they run out.
Feed the unicable signal back up a cable and resplit it without having getting extra multi-switch. You will just need splitters.
Add a unicable switch to where the other one is and send the signal out.

[digitl]

Please redraw the diagram indicating wires so I don't make a hash of this by guessing. Also state which outlets make use of the Aerial and Satellite, which just use aerial

Depending on your cabling, you can:
Use the Zgemmas with just one tuner for satellite. They can use fallback tuner if they run out.
Feed the unicable signal back up a cable and resplit it without having getting extra multi-switch. You will just need splitters.
Add a unicable switch to where the other one is and send the signal out.

Fingers crossed:
- All of the lines represent cables
- All of the outlets are triplexers and carry aerial and satellite but only the satellite connectors are used. None of the aerial connectors are used.
- It's been a long time since I installed the cabling but I'm fairly sure there is a cable back up to the multiswitch from behind the Vu+.

If the Unicable signal can be sent back up to the loft are you suggesting that an eight-way splitter in the loft could be used to feed into the current multiswitch and so provide feeds to both FBC and legacy tuners? If the cable to the loft exists, then that sound like a plan!

[abu baniaz]

> All of the outlets are triplexers and carry aerial and satellite but only the satellite connectors are used. None of the aerial connectors are used.

This does not make full sense with me. One of your picture shows you using the aerial connector.

Anyway, lets go with what you are saying...
If you are not using your aerial on the other devices, this is not the best option. I think you should not even consider it.

Use a splitter where the Vu+ is.
One wire will go to the VU.
One wire will go to where the splitter is.

Add another splitter there, and send to the other rooms where you want. You would then use more splitters to provide both Zgemma tuners with satellite signal.

It's a bad option and a waste of time. I shouldn't really have bothered with editing your diagram. You are better off just using the Zgemma with one satellite tuner enabled and one Aerial tuner. Enable the fallback tuner to use the Vu+ when required. The TVs can still use the aerial.

[abu baniaz]

The proper option was to replace the switch. There is no need at moment. See here as an example:
https://www.inverto.tv/multiswitch/308/unicable-ii-cascadable-switch-with-terrestrial-input-and-4x-dcss-scr-legacy-terrestrial-outputs

[digitl]

> All of the outlets are triplexers and carry aerial and satellite but only the satellite connectors are used. None of the aerial connectors are used.

This does not make full sense with me. One of your picture shows you using the aerial connector.

Anyway, lets go with what you are saying...
If you are not using your aerial on the other devices, this is not the best option. I think you should not even consider it.

Use a splitter where the Vu+ is.
One wire will go to the VU.
One wire will go to where the splitter is.

Add another splitter there, and send to the other rooms where you want. You would then use more splitters to provide both Zgemma tuners with satellite signal.

It's a bad option and a waste of time. I shouldn't really have bothered with editing your diagram. You are better off just using the Zgemma with one satellite tuner enabled and one Aerial tuner. Enable the fallback tuner to use the Vu+ when required. The TVs can still use the aerial.

Sorry, long day, late at night, brain fade, I forgot the aerial connection to the Vu+. Though it's connected to the tuner, I only use the FBC tuners.

Just to be sure of what your diagram is telling me:


in the Living Room, disconnect the Unicable which connects the LNB to the Vu+, connect it to a 1 > 2 splitter, one output to the Vu+, the other connected to the unused cable from the multiswitch

in the Loft, disconnect the other end of the newly Unicable enabled cable from the multiswitch and connect it to a 1 > 3 splitter

disconnect the multiswitch > Bedroom 1 cable and attach it to one of the two splitter outputs

disconnect the multiswitch > Kitchen cable and attach it to one of the two splitter outputs

in Bedroom 1, connect the newly Unicable enabled cable to a 1 > 2 splitter and connect both outputs to the Zgemma

in the kitchen, connect the newly Unicable enabled cable to a 1 > 2 splitter and connect both outputs to the Zgemma


I don't mind doing all that and, to this currently-being-educated eye, it appears to offer the most complete option on each box but you say it's bad. Is there a significant signal loss with each splitter?

In terms of the cascade switch:


in the Living Room, disconnect the Unicable which connects the LNB to the Vu+, connect it to a 1 > 2 splitter, one output to the Vu+, the other connected to the unused cable from the multiswitch and, in the Loft, connect it to the cascade's Unicable input (I can't see one on the unit's illustration)

disconnect the Quattro and legacy feeds to the existing multiswitch and connect them instead to the cascade's inputs

reconnect the existing multiswitch to the cascade's Quattro and legacy outputs

connect the rooms needing the Unicable feed to the cascade's Unicable outputs, connect the other rooms to the multiswitch's legacy outputs.


Again, I'm more than willing to do whichever gives me the best, most flexible result. While I'm happy to learn, Management is a real technophobe and so all of this needs to be hidden/transparent. For her, it's a case of just turn the TV on, select a recording or live broadcast and watch!

Thanks yet again for your help and patience.

[abu baniaz]

I said it's a bad idea sending the unicable signal back up to the loft and then redistributing it. Sorry, if I didn't mention it before, but you would lose aerial signal unless you added diplexers in loft too. The TVs are connected to the aerial I presume.

To recap, my recommendation is: use existing hardware, use one satellite tuner and an aerial tuner on both Zgemmas. On both Zgemmas, add the fallback tuners to use the Vu+.

As an aside, you should really use the Aerial tuners on your receivers. With just one tuner, you can view and record all of BBC 1 HD, BBC 2 HD, ITV 1 HD, Ch 4 HD, Ch 5 HD. As well as stream to other devices.

[digitl]

I said it's a bad idea sending the unicable signal back up to the loft and then redistributing it. Sorry, if I didn't mention it before, but you would lose aerial signal unless you added diplexers in loft too. The TVs are connected to the aerial I presume.

To recap, my recommendation is: use existing hardware, use one satellite tuner and an aerial tuner on both Zgemmas. On both Zgemmas, add the fallback tuners to use the Vu+.

As an aside, you should really use the Aerial tuners on your receivers. With just one tuner, you can view and record all of BBC 1 HD, BBC 2 HD, ITV 1 HD, Ch 4 HD, Ch 5 HD. As well as stream to other devices.

Thanks for the recommendation. As you're now very aware, this technology is all very new to me but I'm willing to learn and that leads to some 'exploring' which led to me being interested in the cable to the loft options and getting as much as possible out of the Unicable signal and the FBC tuners without bothering about the effort or the cost.

All of our TVs have satellite connections so we never use the terrestrial signal. I only plugged it in on the Vu+ because the tuner was there but I haven't used it: if I had known what I know now when the Vu+ I would probably have opted for a second dual FBC card.

[abu baniaz]

Do you TVs support unicable or better still JESS/unicable 2

[digitl]

Do you TVs support unicable or better still JESS/unicable 2

No, sadly not, just checked. I would be relying on the FBC tuners in the three boxes.

[abu baniaz]

I have mentioned this a few times already, your Zgemma do not have FBC tuners.

There is no gain at the moment by changing your hardware configuration. At the moment, your Zgemma's have one tuner with a satellite signal wire as well as aerial. I hope you have setup the fallback tuner, so they can use the Vu+ when required.

[digitl]

Apologies, I know that.Posting without thinking is never good!

Zgemmas are now set up with one satellite connection and one terrestrial plus Fallback tuner. :thumbsup:

I'll spend some time now watching TV!