Enigma2 streaming to the internet WITHOUT a PC

[kunmun23]

Hi All,

I have a ET9x00 twin-tuner enigma2 box and would like the ability to stream from it over the internet to my parent's home in another city.

This is what I have right now :

ET9x00 connected on Fibre broadband with a 10Mbps upload speed, 45Mbps download (the device receiving the streaming content has a 15Mbps download speed)
Port forwarding from router to E2 box
Opened port 80/8001 for OpenWebif

Streaming on the internet suffers severe glitching and are unwatchable (even on the SD channel). It works well on LAN.

So, I started reading the forums and gathered the following info :

1. To be able to stream on the internet, the a/v stream from the E2 box needs to be transcoded at a lower bit rate.
2. To do this transcoding I would need a ...

PC running a VLC Server that does the transcoding
OR
A box like Vu+ Solo2 or Duo2 that can do transcoding on the fly
OR
A box like Slingbox, ROKU etc that can placeshift/spaceshift i.e. take the output of the Enigma2 box and transcode it and send it over the internet

The PC option above doesn't sound very appealing to me (I'd rather have a standalone tiny box doing the transcoding). So I'm looking at the other two options.


Can you please share your expert opinions and inputs on the following :

1 . From what I understand, transcoding is a software process that can be run on any computing device with the right resources and transcoding applications. What are the minimum hardware requirements? Can I run a transcoding plugin on my ET9x00 or would it kill the 400Mhz CPU? If yes, which plugin? If no, can I run it on an Android TV dongle that has a dual-core or quad-core CPU with 1GB RAM? If yes, what app? If no, why not?

2. My ET9x00 box has only one HDMI out. I can either feed it in the TV or in the external transcoding+streaming box (slingbox or android tv box). How do I set up things so that I have the local TV using one tuner and the remote stream using the other?

3. What other hardware/software alternatives (to Slingbox or otherwise) exist that can do placeshifting/spaceshifting using Enigma2 twin-tuner boxes.


Any inputs welcome. If I get it up and running I'll post a detailed thread on internet streaming using enigma2 boxes (the last thread on this topic seems to be a couple of years old).

 

[kunmun23]

Anyone ?? No inputs ?? I can't believe that I'm trying something out-of-the-world...surely someone would have tried something along similar lines..

Or is it because I'm in the wrong forum? If yes, mods please feel free to move the thread as appropriate.

 

[Trial]

AW: Enigma2 streaming to the internet WITHOUT a PC

hi,
1. no Chance hat a STB can do it in Software.

2. the problem with slingbox or a similar device is that you can only stream what you see.

3. good option but picture quality is only suitable for a Smartphone vor tab might be the Solo2.

ciao

Gesendet von meinem GT-P1000 mit Tapatalk 2

 

[blueuk808]

Hi,

I had a go at this some time ago but gave up to the result being glitchy and touch and go whether it ever connected. Also having to dedicate my receiver and a pc to generate it seemed like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

The best on-stop(ish) solution I found was dvblink. There's a free trial to see if you can get it working. I did get it going with xmbc but there are a number of other options.

Hope this helps

 

[kunmun23]

1. no Chance hat a STB can do it in Software.

I thought so ...

2. the problem with slingbox or a similar device is that you can only stream what you see.

That's exactly the issue..if only there was a way to use one tuner>slingbox>Stream and the other tuner>hdmi>Local TV

3. good option but picture quality is only suitable for a Smartphone vor tab might be the Solo2.

I've heard about Solo2 and Duo2 but both are relatively new and there is not many reviews on how well it performs and whether it'll work on anything bigger than a smartphone

 

[kunmun23]

... having to dedicate my receiver and a pc to generate it seemed like a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

Exactly !! And that's why I was looking at options like Android TV dongle+some transcoding app. These cheap devices with their quad-core CPUs/GPUs and 1GB RAM have enough hardware processing power for the job...the challenge is finding the right SERVER app that can do the transcoding/streaming.

The best on-stop(ish) solution I found was dvblink. There's a free trial to see if you can get it working. I did get it going with xmbc but there are a number of other options.

Can you please elaborate? Are you running XBMC on a PC with the dvblink PVR add-in? If that's the case, what's wrong with using a VLC server on PC for transcoding/streaming (although I'd still have to figure the configs)

 

[Johev]

Hi kunmun23, I am not sure if you already gave up but it is doable and does not require a new box like duo2 or solo2. If your upload speeds are correct, then you don't actually need transcoding, as that is only needed due to bandwidth limitations.

I have set up a similar thing with a VPN. If you configure a VPN and your parents router connects to it/I think raspberry pi can also connect to a VPN but did not try it, you only need a raspberry pi device on the side of your parents, and if you have a dual tuner receiver you can be watching one channel, while your parents watch a different one. For raspberry pi choose the linux XBMC variant ROM and OC it at 900Mhz-1Ghz. Please note that you will only be able to record the same stream that either you or your parents are watching.

The only problem might be HD channels, as they can sometimes go above 10mbits, nevertheless there is normally the equivalent of that channel in SD which I would choose as they range from 3-5Mbts.

Good luck and let me know how it went.

PS: I tried this on with a Vu+ Duo, which I think is slower than the Xtrend 9x00.

 

[kunmun23]

@Johev,

Thanks for your post. I managed to get it working for SD channels using Virgin Fiber broadband with a 10Mbps upload speeds. Anything less and it starts getting a bit choppy.
HD isn't watchable. Just did a simple port forward (no VPN) and was able to access the web-bouquet on a remote laptop and was able to play using VLC. Also, I tried using an android dongle and an app like Dreamdroid and Vu+ player with MX player and it works !!

I guess the only caveat is the upload/download speeds should be good. If not, I'd guess one would require a Solo2 or Duo2 sort of box that can do transcoding on the fly to degrade the stream quality slightly when the broadband speeds fluctuate, yet keep the stream flowing.

Interestingly, I couldn't find a SERVER app for android that could do the transcoding...which is a bit surprising because the new android dongles have quad core cpus with 1.4GHz speed and 2GB DDR rams which I think is enough processing power to do the transcoding to H264.

Btw, is there an advantage of using a VPN than a simple port foward for the purpose of streaming over the web? I mean are there QoS options that one can utilize ?

 

[abu baniaz]

There is a disadvantage to using vpn, wont be as fast. You just need port forwarding. However, Virgin Media IP addresses normally stay the same for a long time.

 

[kunmun23]

There is a disadvantage to using vpn, wont be as fast. You just need port forwarding. However, Virgin Media IP addresses normally stay the same for a long time.

Thanks for the info on VPN. It does makes sense..the extra overhead of the VPN would surely slow it down.

I don't worry too much about IP address changes. Use freedns.afraid.org for DDNS with the update client running on my home PC. There's Inadyn on ET9x00 ViX image as well but I could never really get it to work.

 

[Trial]

Hi,

Interestingly, I couldn't find a SERVER app for android that could do the transcoding...which is a bit surprising because the new android dongles have quad core cpus with 1.4GHz speed and 2GB DDR rams which I think is enough processing power to do the transcoding to H264.

I think you are a bit blinded by 4cores and 1.5GHz. You cannot compare them with your PC at home. They are low power embedded CPUs. Decoding for instance is done by the GPU and if you want to transcode it normally must be done by the CPU and decoding is the easy part especially for h264. With a special transcoding part on the chip like in Solo2/Duo2 it would be possible.

ciao

 

[kunmun23]

Hi,

I think you are a bit blinded by 4cores and 1.5GHz. You cannot compare them with your PC at home. They are low power embedded CPUs. Decoding for instance is done by the GPU and if you want to transcode it normally must be done by the CPU and decoding is the easy part especially for h264. With a special transcoding part on the chip like in Solo2/Duo2 it would be possible.

ciao

I'm guessing by saying "low power embedded CPU" you mean "low power consuming embedded CPU" NOT "low processing power CPU".

Also, these devices I mentioned of have quad core GPUs as well. Here's my understanding of the transcoding :

1. STB provides a AV stream to the transcoding device.
2. The transcoding device does a lossy compression of stream
3. The receiving unit decodes the compressed stream and renders it.

Are you saying that an android TV dongle with the following specs does not have the processing power to act as a transcoding device :

Rockchip RK3188 Quad Core Cortex A9 1.6GHz
Quad Core Mali 400MP GPU
2GB DDR3 RAM

I would think it does. I thinik the only thing absent is the "server app" that takes the codecs, the stream from STB and does the transcoding.

The Solo2 would have a dedicated transcoding chip that does the above. But as a hobbyist, if I didn't want to invest in an another expensive box for just this functionality, I would look at cheaper alternatives like android dongle, raspberry pi etc to do the transcoding instead of a high-power-consuming always-on-PC running VLC server.

 

[Trial]

Hi,
I always give an example. The Solo2/Duo2 both have a dual thread CPU with around 2*1.3GHz. This CPU has less then 1/30th of the CPU power of my more then 4 year old PC and this can hardly (if ever, SD yes but HD I doubt) transcode in real time. So when you only count cores and GHZ a recent smart phone has around 1/15 of the power of my PC.

If low power usage does not mean low CPU power why are Core i7 are using 100W?

ciao

 

[kunmun23]

Hi,
I always give an example. The Solo2/Duo2 both have a dual thread CPU with around 2*1.3GHz. This CPU has less then 1/30th of the CPU power of my more then 4 year old PC and this can hardly (if ever, SD yes but HD I doubt) transcode in real time. So when you only count cores and GHZ a recent smart phone has around 1/15 of the power of my PC.

If low power usage does not mean low CPU power why are Core i7 are using 100W?

ciao

I didn't follow what you are saying.

Let's take an example :

PC1 has a 1.3GHz processor
A smartphone has 1.3GHz processor

Assuming the instruction set architecture is the same (or comparable), they both would take 1/(1.3 x 10^9) of a second to process an instruction.

So how is one more powerful than the other ? They both process the same amount of information in the same time.

Regarding wattage power :

My 10 year old Celeron PC running a 800MHz consumed more watts than my current smartphone with 1.4GHz processor. In other words, it consumed more watts but processed less information than my smartphones. So, watts used is only loosely related to processing speed. In fact most of the current research is addressing exactly that : How can we process faster while consuming less energy.

Comparing the processor on an STB to that of a PC is slightly flawed because the instruction set architecture is quite different (x86 vs MIPS). Android dongles (ARM) to PC is still a fair comparison. A PC doesn't perform faster, it has better throughput due to the level of caches (L1,L2) and the 4GB,8GB RAM that we stuff into it as opposed to 512MB (2GB on the highest end devices) on Android.

Am I missing something? Please correct if I'm wrong on something...this thread is going a bit off-topic but is really useful info that would help answer many of the queries users have around STB processing power, transcoding etc etc.

 

[Trial]

Hi,

Assuming the instruction set architecture is the same (or comparable), they both would take 1/(1.3 x 10^9) of a second to process an instruction.

This shows that you do not know how a CPU works. 1.3 GHz only means that the CPU can do 1.3GHz cycles BUT not every cycle is an instruction. Division for instance takes X cycles on CPU A and Y cycles on CPU B. Or CPU B does not have the instruction Z so it must be done by a subroutine which is a lot slower. In my example with my old PC and the new mips in Solo2/DUO2 I showed you the difference.

YOU CANNOT COMPARE CPUs simply by comparing the system clock even with the same architecture!!!!!!!!!

If cell phone processors are so power full and power saving why are they not used for server farms and super computer?

ciao

 

[kunmun23]

1.3 GHz only means that the CPU can do 1.3GHz cycles BUT not every cycle is an instruction. Division for instance takes X cycles on CPU A and Y cycles on CPU B. Or CPU B does not have the instruction Z so it must be done by a subroutine which is a lot slower.

YOU CANNOT COMPARE CPUs simply by comparing the system clock!!!!!!!!!

ciao

Totally agree that CPUs can't be compared solely by system clock, but given a comparable instruction set (i.e. both the systems takes x cycles for a divide operation) you can compare CPU speeds. For instance two CPUs on a x86 architecture using let's say, intel instruction set, one at 1.4GHz and one at 2GHz. The 2GHz would surely be faster in processing the same piece of information than the 1.4GHz.

CPU speed isn't a pure marketing hogwash. I do agree that it should not be the only metric to look at when comparing system performance.

Anyways, coming back to the point :

Are you saying that a 1.4GHz ARM Cortex A7 quad core android dongle does not have enough processing capability to transcode on the fly ??


Would love to hear views from some other experts too.

 

[pac2000]

MIPS/ARM Processors Are RISC (Reduced Instruction Set Computing) Based Whereas x86/x64 Are CISC(Complex Instruction Set Computing)Based... Trial Is 100% Correct That You Cannot Under Any Circumstances Compare The 2 Based On Clock Speed Or Amount Of Cores...

Here's A Z80 Instruction LDDR

This Is It In Another Form (The Routine In Z80 If The LDDR Instruction Didn't Exist)

Loop:
LD (DE),(HL)
DEC DE
DEC HL
DEC BC
LD A,B
JR NZ,Loop
LD A,C
JR NZ,Loop

The LDDR Instruction For Starters Only Processes 1 Instruction... It Doesn't Need To Pull More Instructions In From Memory And Increment The Program Counter For Each Of The Instructions Above... This Saves Huge Amount Of Time... This Routine Is Hard Coded In The Processor And Is One Of Many In A CISC Processor... With RISC You Must Write These Routines, Which Are Very Slow By Comparison, And Take Up More Space In Memory... And In Fact Even For Some Instructions In That Routine Above In RISC Code Would Require Several Instructions Per CISC Instruction...

The LDDR Instruction If You Haven't Guessed Is Used For Shifting Blocks Of Memory From One Location To Another...

You Can't Honestly Think A Cheap ARM Processor Can Compare To An Expensive Intel/AMD... And I Haven't Even Gone Into Pre-Fetching And Pre-Processing That Modern CISC Architecture Perform...

 

[Trial]

Hi,

For instance two CPUs on a x86 architecture using let's say, intel instruction set, one at 1.4GHz and one at 2GHz. The 2GHz would surely be faster in processing the same piece of information than the 1.4GHz.

here you must be careful. If you compare 1st generation cores with last generation haswell the later will be more than twice as fast with the same clock. I have an old dual core with 2*3.4GHz which will be easily beaten by current Atoms with half the clock. So clock says simply almost nothing. It is only a vague indicator for the speed.

ciao