Deviation from ABM T2 thread

[birdman]

I was going to point out that you can get all of the UK Freeview transmitter frequencies from

http://www.ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv

(although that would require a manual trawl), but I also see that comparing mine with that for Crystal Palace that the transport_stream_id differs on one mux.

Mind you - given that you can get this information from the scan, why do you need it in a separate config file?

Anyway - here's Sandy heath.

View attachment SandyHeath.zip
​

 

[Peterj]

I was going to point out that you can get all of the UK Freeview transmitter frequencies from

http://www.ukfree.tv/transmitters/tv

(although that would require a manual trawl), but I also see that comparing mine with that for Crystal Palace that the transport_stream_id differs on one mux.

Mind you - given that you can get this information from the scan, why do you need it in a separate config file?

We also need other tuning information for the transponders, not only broadcast frequencies.
The tool is reading your lamedb, it does not scan.

 

[birdman]

The tool is reading your lamedb, it does not scan.

That's the point I'm making.
All of the info is in lamedb, so why not just let ABM scan that (if you don't have one then ABM is irrelevant) and do away the need for a static, manually-maintained configuration file?

 

[garyblas]

I thought it already does this and puts in folder FTA HD Channels

 

[Peterj]

That's the point I'm making.
All of the info is in lamedb, so why not just let ABM scan that (if you don't have one then ABM is irrelevant) and do away the need for a static, manually-maintained configuration file?

I guess you are not aware of the working of ABM.
ABM does not read lamedb. It creates a lamedb and bouquest from the providers stream information.
With ABM you can automatically (scheduled) update your lamedb and bouquets, when a provider has add transponders and/or services.
Also when you start with a fresh installed box, you can use ABM to create you channel list in less then 1 minute.
So ABM is much more then a simple bouquet maker.

Unfortunately this does not work correctly for DVB-T2 transponders and DVB-T repeaters because of missing or wrong information in the providers DVB stream.

 

[abu baniaz]

I thought it already does this and puts in folder FTA HD Channels

You are probably mixing up with Free to Air Satellite channels. There is no FTA HD option for Terrestrial (using an aerial not a dish). Andy removed FTA HD a while back as it did not work.

 

[birdman]

I guess you are not aware of the working of ABM.

Couldn't find the documentation...

ABM does not read lamedb. It creates a lamedb and bouquest from the providers stream information.
With ABM you can automatically (scheduled) update your lamedb and bouquets, when a provider has add transponders and/or services.

Ah, so it's geared up for a satellite paradigm. Freeview doesn't send out a list of services - it expects you to scan the relevant frequencies for your transmitter (quick - or all of them, slower) and present them in channel number order - which is broadcast by the transmitter, but never makes it into lamedb.

Also when you start with a fresh installed box, you can use ABM to create you channel list in less then 1 minute.

I can get a channel list with a scan, too.

Unfortunately this does not work correctly for DVB-T2 transponders and DVB-T repeaters because of missing or wrong information in the providers DVB stream.

It's missing because it's not a satellite stream.

But that does make sense of why I "had" to write my own script to parse lamedb and produce bouquet files with the correct padding to get all of the channels on the correct (for Freeview) channel number. It also created a picons directory of correct filenames at the same time (made a little redundant a few days later by the arrival or service-named searches for picons...).
However, I can see that if you have a mixed terrestrial and satellite/cable combination then the channel numbers would have clashes, so become irrelevant, and ABM can put them into logical groupings.

 

[abu baniaz]

ABM was released more than 2 years ago. There was a release thread and also mentioned in the last few image releases. Although it does not meantion Terrestial, Cable. Turksat, Sky De, Custom LCN, the basic operation is the same.

It was suggested to you that you use ABM when you queried lamedb. You did not have to write a perl script, you chose to. Performing a conventional scan does not put the chanenls in the same order as the provider.

This thread was started to get people's help to contribute to get HD channels working using ABM for Terrestrial in the UK. Thank you for your contribution with the logs, this has been added. Please leave this thread to serve its purpose and pursue any other issues in their relevant thread.

 

[birdman]

It was suggested to you that you use ABM when you queried lamedb.

Despite the fact that. at the time, it didn't handle HD channels at all.

You did not have to write a perl script, you chose to.

Hence the "had" being in quotes. But I did have to do something to get the channels listed as I wanted them, as no available tool did so (which is still the case). But that's my choice.

Performing a conventional scan does not put the channels in the same order as the provider.

Which I take to being a mis-feature of the scan, since the providers' channel numbers are broadcast, but not used, or stored in lamedb. But since I have a simple script that handles that for me, it's not something I'm about to delve into looking at fixing.

This thread was started to get people's help to contribute to get HD channels working using ABM for Terrestrial in the UK. Thank you for your contribution with the logs, this has been added. Please leave this thread to serve its purpose and pursue any other issues in their relevant thread.

That's what I was doing. In the post with the log I was just commenting on the satellite/terrestrial paradigm differences.

Anyway, here's a compete list of the current (17 Nov 2014) Freeview transmitter channels that I've managed to track down.

http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/broadcasting/Complete-DTT-frequency-plan.xls

(it's a link on

http://stakeholders.ofcom.org.uk/broadcasting/guidance/tech-guidance/transmitter-frequency/

)
The HD muxes are PSB3 (in the DSO sheet) and COM7 (in the NonDSO sheet). [The +/- offsets are =/- 200Mhz from the channel frequency]
This doesn't help with the transport_stream_id differences which show up on PSB3, though (are these region-based values?). Haven't tracked down anything about that, yet.

 

[abu baniaz]

Someone already created a terrestrial.xml listing all the transmitters and repeaters in the UK for a conventional E2 scan.

Your contribution to improve the scan facility will be welcomed by the the E2 community. Please make necessary edits to the file and submit a pull request. You may also wish to look at the LCN scanner plugin which does not work for the UK.

 

[birdman]

This doesn't help with the transport_stream_id differences which show up on PSB3, though (are these region-based values?). Haven't tracked down anything about that, yet.

Well, I've tracked down how they are assigned:

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/__data/assets/pdf_file/0008/87371/UKDTT_DVBID_Allocation_v1_0.pdf

(from

http://www.digitaluk.co.uk/industry/Multiplexes

), but not what gets used where. It does indicate that it is a regional code, though.
This should be the only thing changes between transmitters (apart from the frequencies) as the other values are the same for both HD muxes. And you can get the TSID from the About/Information screens without running a script, which might increase the responses rate?).

 

[birdman]

[The +/- offsets are =/- 200Mhz from the channel frequency]

Err....make that +/- 200kHz (0.2MHz)!

 

[Peterj]

Ah, so it's geared up for a satellite paradigm. Freeview doesn't send out a list of services - it expects you to scan the relevant frequencies for your transmitter (quick - or all of them, slower) and present them in channel number order - which is broadcast by the transmitter, but never makes it into lamedb.

It's for DVB-S, DVB-C and most of DVB-T.
Freeview do send out list of services. Every provider does, otherwise your receivers/tv sets cannot find the services (tv/radio channels).
All information needed for lamedb and bouquets are broadcast.
Just a question of where to find it. Not all providers are using the correct 'descriptors' (like the 'official' LCN descriptor) as described in the DVB norms.
Also there are DVB-T providers who don't have a 'home channel'. Therefore you need to scan all transponders to get all the services of that provider.
They only broadcast services for that specific transponder.

 

[abu baniaz]

DVB documentation

 

[birdman]

Just a question of where to find it. Not all providers are using the correct 'descriptors' (like the 'official' LCN descriptor) as described in the DVB norms.

They are in something called the NorDig field/standard. They must be there, given that all Freeview HD TV and set-top boxes can find them.