Help understanding fallback tuners and client mode

[FredC]

I'm looking at getting a second box and trying to get a grip on the difference between Fallback Tuners and Client Mode.

I've got a Vu+ Solo 4k with DVB-S2 FBC built in, a twin DVB-C/T2 card and an external Turbo DVB-C/T2 card. At the moment I've got DVB-C on the external turbo and DVB-T2 on the twin internal. I've got a 2TB HDD fitted in it and a house-wide wired Gigabit LAN.

I'm wanting to fit a second box in another room, and both boxes need to be able to watch channels on all 3 media, and play and set recording. I'd also like to get more DVB-C tuners. So I came up with 2 possibilities...

First is to keep Solo 4k where it is, and get a Vu Uno 4k SE with a C FBC card and say another 2TB HDD. I'd then change the turbo tuner to a 3rd T2 tuner on the Solo 4k. Then (with both boxes on the LAN, with fixed IP addresses) use fallback tuners to share the tuners across both boxes. So each box would be able to watch and record multiple S2/T2/C channels.

The other solution is to get a Vu Ultimo 4k with S2 and C FBC tuners, swap the twin C/T2 and turbo C/T2 into the Ultimo and fit a 5TB HDD inside it. Run the C/T2 tuners all in T2 mode. Then (with both boxes on the LAN with fixed IP) put the Solo4k into Client mode in another room and use all the tuners from the Ultimo, to watch and record/play on both boxes.

So what I want to know is...

Which method will work the best?
Can I record/play back on both boxes in each set-up?
How are fallback tuners configured on the remote box?
If using fallback tuners do I have to re-scan both boxes when there is a line-up change, or just the box with the tuner thats changed?
If using client mode can I record/play on both boxes, or just the server box? Can I play server recordings on the client box and vica-versa?
Is there any point keeping the Solo4k if I get an ultimo, or would a kodi client do the same (I use Kodi as a client and zapping & playing can be slow)?

I'm sure the answers will drive more questions.

I've posted in this sub-forum because the questions are about fallback tuners and client mode, not the Vu+ hardware itself. So please can this thread be kept in this forum.

 

[abu baniaz]

You can only scan using actual tuners on the box.

Whether you use fallback or not, you can mount the HDDs from another receiver and record/play to/from it.

Fallback as the name suggests is resorting to tuner on another receiver. However, it is pot luck whether the host has a free tuner or not. Shouldn't be an issue if you have FBC though.

Client mode uses tuners from other receivers only.

 

[FredC]

You can only scan using actual tuners on the box.

Whether you use fallback or not, you can mount the HDDs from another receiver and record/play to/from it.

Yes, of course, I'd forgotten that. But is it possible to schedule a server recording from the client, or can the client box record on the local HDD using the tuners from the server?

Fallback as the name suggests is resorting to tuner on another receiver. However, it is pot luck whether the host has a free tuner or not. Shouldn't be an issue if you have FBC though.

Hence the idea of having so many tuners on the Server box. What I'm not clear on is how the reciever using the fallback tuner gets its list of stations. Is some data pushed / pulled between the host box and the receiver using the fallback tuners, or does there have to be some sort of frig done to populate the list (such as using dreambox edit, or a script to SCP/FTP files between the boxes)?

Client mode uses tuners from other receivers only.

I've read that there is a transfer of data between the server and client, but is it Cron'd at regular intervals, or does it only happen when the boxes are re-booted?

 

[abu baniaz]

With regards to fallback tuner and bouquets. The box in use has its own bouquets. You either import them, create them or use a plugin to create them. Fallback tuner does not do anything with importing bouquets. If no tuners on box, it falls back to a remote tuner.

Remote Stream converter plugin allows you to import bouquets from another receiver.

I am afraid I don't know too much about client mode, so can't help. There are a few people on forum who use it extensively, I'm sure they will post in the thread.

 

[FredC]

With regards to fallback tuner and bouquets. The box in use has its own bouquets. You either import them, create them or use a plugin to create them. Fallback tuner does not do anything with importing bouquets. If no tuners on box, it falls back to a remote tuner.

Remote Stream converter plugin allows you to import bouquets from another receiver.

I am afraid I don't know too much about client mode, so can't help. There are a few people on forum who use it extensively, I'm sure they will post in the thread.

Thank you for the help so far.

What I'm hoping is there are poeple seeing this forum (rather than just the Vu forums) that will have working setup of fallback tuners / client modes.

I need to understand this before laying out up to £500 on a new box.

 

[FredC]

Is there anyone out the actually using Remote Tuners or Cleint Mode could you chip in on your experiences with it.

Many Thanks

 

[Willo3092]

I use client mode on ViX on a Dinobot in my workshop with no problems whatsoever.
Just got power and network cables plugged in with an 8gb usb.
All you need to do is go to Tuner Setup and press the yellow button for client mode and enter the IP address of the host box.
Also enable import bouquets and epg and save.
The box will reboot and when you restart you will have the same bouquets as on the host box.

 

[twol]

I run client mode from a H9 & H9twin to my Giga UHD 4K - works flawlessly with full access to the bouquets and epg on the Giga.

 

[FredC]

thanks @Willo3092 & @twol

How does recording work?
Can the client box record and playback?
Can I schedule recordings on the Server box from the client box and vica-versa?
Can I playback recordings made on the Server box from the client box and vica-versa? I realise you can set-up cross shares, but is this feature built-in?

 

[Huevos]

thanks @Willo3092 & @twol

How does recording work?
Can the client box record and playback?
Can I schedule recordings on the Server box from the client box and vica-versa?
Can I playback recordings made on the Server box from the client box and vica-versa? I realise you can set-up cross shares, but is this feature built-in?

The only purpose of client mode is to...

• Disable local tuners on the client
• Import bouquets and EPG from the server.
• Also has an interface to choose fallback tuner so you can do everything from one screen.

If you are using the client box and you schedule a recording there is no way to know a tuner will be available on the server box to cater for this.

You cannot schedule recordings on the server box from the client box. You would need to program the server box directly.

If you want to access recordings on the server box from the client box set up a network mount. This has nothing to do with client mode.

The original idea was to get enigma running as a client on some really budget hardware (that didn't have DVB tuners), but the developer that was working on procfs disappeared without trace. Client mode was the only useful part of that project that could be salvaged.

 

[abu baniaz]

Help understanding fallback tuners and clien

The developer that was working on procfs disappeared without trace.

That comment isn't fair and balanced.

The chap is still about and I communicate with him for advice from time to time.

The problem was a chicken and egg situation. Enigma2 did not boot. So how do you test drivers? One of our team thwarted attempts to commit things to make image run and preferred "local" commits.

OpenVision have Enigma2 running on the Pi but with no DVB support.

 

[Huevos]

The chap is still about and I communicate with him for advice from time to time.

The problem was a chicken and egg situation. Enigma2 did not boot. So how do you test drivers? One of our team thwarted attempts to commit things to make image run and preferred "local" commits.

Ok, I take it back if not correct. All I remember is I did quite a bit of work and the project is incomplete. My memory is not good due to the sleep condition.

 

[FredC]

I've managed to get this working (almost), but have 2 questions.

How can I force channel lists to be reflected across from fallback tuners?

Is there any way to get a box to stream channels from a fallback tuner?

The background is as follows...

I bought a used Vu+ Uno 4kSE with a DVB-C FBC tuner in it. I updated it to the latest version of ViX and did likewise on my Solo4k. I then ran a DVB-C scan to pick up all the channels I needed on the Uno box.

My Solo box had a twin DVB-C tuner configured and a a single USB Turbo DVB-T2 tuner, each connected to the respective signal cables. I changed the Solo tuner config to be 3 DVB-T2 (plus the built-in DVB-S2 FBC). I replaced the DVB-C cable from the twin tuner for another DVB-T2 signal cable. I rescanned both DVB-T2 tuners and tested to make sure only DVB-S2 and DVB-T2 were working (no DVB-C channels would tune), though their entries remained in the satellites/cable/terrestrial list on channels, and of course in the bouquets that pointed to them).

I added the Uno as a fallback tuner in the solo and all the channels were watchable and I was able to record any of them. So far so good.

Next I added the solo as a fallback tuner in the uno, but all I was able to watch was the DVB-C channels on it. No DVB-S2 or DVB-T2 showed up. I tried a number of re-boots on each box but no DVB-S2 or T2 channels showed up. So I restored the original config of the Solo (S2, 1xT2 and 2xC) and set the uno up in client mode. Bingo, everything was watchable on both boxes, though of course I no longer had access to the DVB-C FBC tuner in the uno.

I reverted the settings and cables to the Solo (3xT2 & S2) and returned both boxes to point at each other as fallback tuners, and it all works. Both the Solo and the Uno can access their own tuners and the fallback tuners.

Now comes the first problem. When I re-scan any of the tuners, the changes only show on the box the physically has the tuners in it. Nothing gets copied across to the other box (pretty much how the uno was behaving). The only way I could copy the changes across was to use DreamBox Edit, and I had to be very carefull to do things in the right order, backing up at each step. When doing this I also manaully edited the cables.xml file in order to add a couple of missing transponders (DreamBox Edit has this feature in it, but it only works on satellites.xml). I understand that under the bonnet of dreambox edit that it reads and write the etc/enigma2/lamedb file, and it may be possible to simply copy this across. The problem I could fall into here, is making sure this file isn't in use, and making sure the copies go in the right order (update Solo tuners, copy solo lamedb to the uno, update uno tuners, copy uno lamedb over to the solo).

So I can manually update, and possibly create a script that could do it, but is there something that I can set, or a plugin that I can run, that will do the job in a more stable manner?

And now my second problem.
I also have a 3 kodi boxes (2 RaspberryPi and a NVidia Shield TV) attached to bedroom TVs. I've got them set up with an enigma2 PVR client pointing to the solo. These have always worked without any problems (apart from slow channel change). Now since the uno has been added to the mix, I can only get the kodi boxes to view DVB-S2 and DVB-T2 channels, they just fail on DVB-C. I tried changing the PVR settings over to point to the uno, and the opposite happens only showing DVB-C channels with no DVB-S2 or T2 channels watchable.

I debugged this and found that its the Solo and the uno saying I won't stream something that I've received as a stream (which in effect is what the fallback tuner setting is doing). I used the OpenWebIF clients to prove this on my PC, and I'd already seen this some time ago when I added an internet radio station to the solo radio channels and found it would not play on kodi.

So this leads to the second question is there a way to get ViX to forward streams it receives as if they came from a built-in tuner?

I know it seems common sense for ViX/enigma2 to not do this, as it only increases network traffic, but is there any way to do it? Even if it means making a setting somewhere to a config file, rather than through a menu.

I had thought about alternatives to this. While kodi does indeed allow multiple PVR clients to be installed, you can only have one of each type, so there would be only one config section for the enigma2 PVR client. It "might" be possible to create a renamed copy then re-compile and re-make it. But that would need to be re-done every time there was an update to the original PVR client. That feels like a lot of trouble.

Likewise I thought about getting small enigma2 boxes (Vu+ Zeros) and using them instead. But how could I set up 2 tuner clients or 2 fallback tuners? The setup section only allows you to point at a single client box or fallback tuner.

I know its a long comment, and maybe there aren't any answers, but I need to ask. My only alternative if these cannot be resolved is to ditch both boxes, and get an Ultimo 4k, but thats a £500 investment.

 

[abu baniaz]

You can't stream a stream. Ideally, the process should be just referral and "host" not be involved because it isn't actually hosting anything.

The lamedb files has to be reloaded after importing. It is important to remember that you are replacing the current one and not adding. You combine them as a separate process using PHP, I'll have to get permission before sending link to it.

There is a plugin to allow importing bouquets, can be timed. I'll try to post link later. It is also possible export/import using OWIF. Not sure about automation. You can also make a script.

LraiZer posted details on UKCVS and PLI on automating uploading from box to website too. He uses this on a DM800SE for his AutoBouquets WiKi where you can track 28.2 changes.

Lastly, there is SatIP which forwards the tuner. I think this allows you to use a remote tuner as if it was on box. I don't know too much about it. German ATV users may be able to provide more details.

 

[Huevos]

If you import bouquets that have streams, using Client Mode, the the client box will access them directly, not through the server box.

Client mode is for boxes without tuners, or for the box to appear it does not have tuners.

If you want to import a bouquet of real channels (not IPTV) and stream it from a server box use RCSC plugin. This allows you to access satellites that are not available on the client box.

If you want to import identical bouquets from a server box and still use the local tuners use Channels Importer plugin.

 

[FredC]

Thank Guys. Really usefull stuff. I'll give the importers a try tomorrow.

 

[sexton]

Does enabling fallback tuner affect previously scheduled recordings? Had a couple of failures this morning and that was the only thing I changed.

 

[Huevos]

The tuner is chosen on the fly. It is not pre-booked. So whatever the current settings are at the time of the recording will determine what tuner will be selected.

 

[statequieta]

By pure chance I found this post and luckly I cant get additional help.

* In my case I've got two locations (home A and home B).
* In Home A I've got a dish pointed to Intelsat 27,5º for BBC satback. 1Gb/1Gb internet connectivity and Vu+ Uno 4k.
* In Home B, my goal is to receive BBC channels from Intelsat 27,5º using the Home A dish. This is due to the lack of space for installing a proper dish in Home B. In this case, I've got a Vu+ zero 4k.

I know I can stream the content from Home A to Home B as if it was IPTV. This could be done using a VPN tunel connecting both homes or through internet. However, my point is to explore this options of "sharing a tuner" from Home A with Home B. I would like to know if this is a better off solution for my goal.

Any opinion?
Thanks in advance!

 

[twol]

By pure chance I found this post and luckly I cant get additional help.

* In my case I've got two locations (home A and home B).
* In Home A I've got a dish pointed to Intelsat 27,5º for BBC satback. 1Gb/1Gb internet connectivity and Vu+ Uno 4k.
* In Home B, my goal is to receive BBC channels from Intelsat 27,5º using the Home A dish. This is due to the lack of space for installing a proper dish in Home B. In this case, I've got a Vu+ zero 4k.

I know I can stream the content from Home A to Home B as if it was IPTV. This could be done using a VPN tunel connecting both homes or through internet. However, my point is to explore this options of "sharing a tuner" from Home A with Home B. I would like to know if this is a better off solution for my goal.

Any opinion?
Thanks in advance!

the benefit of 27.5W is all the services are on the same transponder, so as long as you can work out the connection side (I am not a network guy) it should work.
In client server mode you specify the server IP address, so you need to be able to handle that.