[ET10x00] Auto timer problem (not obeying filters)

[adm]

... do you explicitly delete the timers when testing - I've found that deleting autotimers doesn't always delete associated timers even when you ask it to get rid of them.

After deleting an auto timer it it asks if the associated timers should also be deleted. I found that unless you then press green (to save) in the autotimer menu the .xml files may not get immediately updated. If you press green to save, even though the autotimer has actually been deleted from the menu, the files do get updated. It is this un-intuitve pressing of the green button that makes the difference to the .xml files. Irrespective of the state of the .xml files the autotimer and timers both disappear from their associated menus. For my recent testing the timers have only been created from a fresh install of the image with no restores 24 hours ago so there shouldn't have been any historic data.

In the later stages of testing I've been deleting the auto-timer and the associated timers. I then put the box into deep standby and power cycle. Before starting a new test I check the autotimer and timers .xml files to check that they contain no timer information (the file size also reduces to around 42 bytes).

 

[abu baniaz]

Another way of starting fro scratch for testing purposes...

init 4
sleep 10
rm -rf timers.xml
rm -rf autotimer.xml
init 3

 

[adm]

So the filters are ORs not ANDs?

Which may explain why, in my case, Dr Who is not being set for BBC One HD. The BBC One setting is being ignored and the autotimer is seeing two instances of Dr Who on the same bouquet at the same time on two different channels. It first finds it on BBC One HD and a clashing occurrence on BBC One (London) SD and decides to record the latter.

I wonder if this could be the problem others are seeing - clashing timers on a channel and the +1 channel when the channel restriction is being ignored.

BUT - As stated previously the behaviour changes for a brand new auto-timer and one that has had an intermediate configuration change.
I set an auto-timer for a program using the service and bouquets filter and it correctly obeyed the service filter. I modified the filter by removing all service and bouquet restriction which also worked. I then put the filters back to the original configuration and the timer set this time was on a different channel to the original, ignoring the service filter. It may be a special case that I have a HD and SD channel in bouquet that broadcast the same programs at the same time. Although possibly not part the immediate problem, I actually have 4 channel broadcasting the same information at the same time, 2 are on satellite and two are on terrestrial so hence a need to restrict both channels(service) and bouquets.

I can see the logic in having an OR function for both the service and bouquets but when combining it probably needs an AND function

[restrict to BBC One HD OR restrict to BBC Two HD OR restrict to BBC Three]
AND
[restrict to bouquet A OR restrict to bouquet B]

Having 4 fields in the menus for restriction filters makes no sense if one filter completely overrides the others.

 

[abu baniaz]

Out of curiosity, if you restrict to a service, why would you also restrict to a bouquet? That service is unique no matter which bouquet/s it is in or even if it is not in a bouquet. A service remains unique even if it is in multiple bouquets!

To me, the correct behavior is if restricted to service, ignore bouquet restriction. I don't see the logic in restricting to bouquet AND service. With all due respect, it is illogical. In any case, service restriction must take precedence.

Have the logs shown any reason for the rejection of the selected service?

Note:
Enigma2 deals with services which have unique service references, it does not refer to channel names.
BBC One HD on terrestrial is a different service to the multiple BBC One HD services on satellite.
BBC One HD on 28.2 satellite (1_0_19_1B1D_802_2_11A0000_0_0_0) is a different service to BBC One HD on 28.2 satellite (1_0_19_1B31_802_2_11A0000_0_0_0)

 

[birdman]

It may be a special case that I have a HD and SD channel in bouquet that broadcast the same programs at the same time.

If you look into the autotimer.xml file you'll see that services are defined by their service reference - nothing to do with names or HD/SD. e.g. here's one where I want BBC1 or BBC2:

<serviceref>1:0:19:4484:4083:233A:EEEE0000:0:0:0:</serviceref> <!-- BBC ONE HD -->
<serviceref>1:0:19:4440:4083:233A:EEEE0000:0:0:0:</serviceref> <!-- BBC TWO HD -->

 

[birdman]

So the filters are ORs not ANDs?

Which is the case.

What the code does is to check whether you have a bouquet defined as a filter. If so it adds all services in that bouquet to the service filter. it then adds any services you've specifically defined, then uses that complete list of services as the filter.

 

[birdman]

I can see the logic in having an OR function for both the service and bouquets but when combining it probably needs an AND function

Which would allow you to set up service A and bouquet B (not containing A) and end up with no possible match.

Why would you want an AND? Just defined the services you want - the bouquet they are in is totally irrelevant.

 

[abu baniaz]

The complication/issue here is that the OP's defined service is also in the defined bouquet.

Is it possible to make the service restriction ignore bouquet restriction in the coding? The opposite of what is happening now.

 

[adm]

Which would allow you to set up service A and bouquet B (not containing A) and end up with no possible match.

Which would be correct and solely down to the incompetence of the person setting the filters

Why would you want an AND? Just defined the services you want - the bouquet they are in is totally irrelevant.

You are possibly correct.
I was treating the channel(service) selection as being BBC One HD of which I have two possible sources, 1 satellite and 1 terrestrial, and I want the satellite version because the audio encoding on that channel is supported by my AV amp. I now understand that I'm not actually selecting the label BBC One HD but 1:0:19:1B1D:802:2:11A0000:0:0:0 which the box uniquely identifies BBC One HD on satellite and not BBC One HD on terrestrial. If I wanted to also check the terrestrial version the current system allows me to add a new selection of BBC One HD from the terrestrial bouquet and the box sees the unique channel identifier of 1:0:19:4484:4083:233A:EEEE0000:0:0:0 for this selection.

I wonder if other users are making the same assumptions that the box is actually looking for the human friendly channel label whereas in fact it's only looking for the long channel identifier value and therefore a bouquet filter may/will not be required?

Does the (classic) auto-timer menu need to be changed to remove the "restrict to bouquet" entry and/or combine the service and bouquet restriction so that only one or the other can be selected?

 

[abu baniaz]

It would be inadvisable to remove the bouquet option. As an example, for UK cable (non-pure areas) you get services that are unviewable. Restricting to bouquets ensures that only the viewable services are used for timers.

 

[birdman]

I wonder if other users are making the same assumptions that the box is actually looking for the human friendly channel label whereas in fact it's only looking for the long channel identifier value and therefore a bouquet filter may/will not be required?

Possibly. Although the menu for selecting services should contain both entries separately, so there is a hint there.

Does the (classic) auto-timer menu need to be changed to remove the "restrict to bouquet" entry and/or combine the service and bouquet restriction so that only one or the other can be selected?

The bouquet selection is there as a "group of channels". Someone might have organized a bouquet for "channels that have a lot of films on" or "channels that have a lot of documentaries on" just so that they can add these to a filter and get all such channels in one easy selection. They wouldn't need to use this bouquet for actually selecting a channel to watch.

 

[adm]

The bouquet selection is there as a "group of channels". Someone might have organized a bouquet for "channels that have a lot of films on" or "channels that have a lot of documentaries on" just so that they can add these to a filter and get all such channels in one easy selection. They wouldn't need to use this bouquet for actually selecting a channel to watch.

But doesn't that get back to my original problem?
There may be more than one version of the program being broadcast, one channel may have it in high definition, another may have it in standard definition and yet another may have it so compressed that it is almost unwatchable. The program to record is the one in high definition but this may not be achievable if a bouquet filter is then added.

 

[birdman]

The program to record is the one in high definition but this may not be achievable if a bouquet filter is then added.

So, let's get back to one of the responses.
Why would you add a bouquet if you've already added the services?