[ViX_Misc] Autotimers and Description Uniqueness

[Old Codger]

Morning all.

Before I go any further, a query about the forum software. I haven't seen any obvious way of including more than one 'quote' in a single post: is it possible to do this?

Post #33 (css)

The skin is 'OverlayHD', which has a configuration editor to make various changes to its colour-scheme and appearance. I've done a few tweaks, mostly to the rather gloomy black default on the EPG - it's not a very easy process, I have to say. Before installing it fairly recently, I used 'ViX-Day-HD'.

Your example settings almost works (just one duplicate when run today), but it relies on selecting the 'timespan' option, something that won't apply in many cases.

Post #38 (adm)

Thanks for this - it appears to duplicate my results exactly. It looks like the 'title and all descriptions' option isn't doing what one might expect, either.

Post #40 (css)

Are you referring to the episode name in addition to the series/episode number? Yes, a bit unusual, but the Freeview EPG doesn't seem to have many standards when it comes to the description layout etc: down to human vagaries, I guess.


Incidentally, I seem to remember a couple of 'series' extensions in the plugins list. Does anybody know what these actually do?

 

[ronand]

To multiquote messages use the button to the right of "Reply with quote"

 

[adm]

Morning all.

Before I go any further, a query about the forum software. I haven't seen any obvious way of including more than one 'quote' in a single post: is it possible to do this?

You could cut and paste the quoted text in and then use the word quote enclosed in square brackets and the beginning and the word /quote at the end, again enclosed in square brackets
Example

test quote

Post #38 (adm)
Thanks for this - it appears to duplicate my results exactly. It looks like the 'title and all descriptions' option isn't doing what one might expect, either.

I can confirm your findings for your example in that neither test for uniqueness works at all. Having said that it a long time since I've seen such laziness by the broadcaster by not giving episode titles rather than a generic description for all such programs.

I have a very vague recollection that there used to be another option of checking a long description but this crashed the software as often there was no long description to check. Perhaps a fix for this bug has resulted in unexpected behaviour ????????

 

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

Hi css. Many thanks for the reply, and taking the time to run the test.

Well, I can't duplicate your results - setting the autotimer to 'no uniqueness' results, as expected, in all 26 programmes being recorded (ie. just the same as 'Check for uniqueness in: Title and all descriptions'.

Either I'm using a different version of OpenViX and/or the Autotimer plugin, or I'm doing something really silly (more than likely). Is it possible for different boxes to work differently, I wonder?

Anyway, could you post screenshots of your setup please, the same as the ones I posted earlier, and also state your versions of Vix and the plugin?

Regards.

Could your EPG be different?

How have you configured your box to get it's EPG?

I get mine off the air using EPG-Refresh.

 

[ccs]

Could your EPG be different?

How have you configured your box to get it's EPG?

I get mine off the air using EPG-Refresh.

He's using freeview, so it just populates automatically, and #41 suggests his epg isn't different to mine.

 

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

He's using freeview, so it just populates automatically, and #41 suggests his epg isn't different.

Yes, assuming he uses the box regularly.

I'm not sure if I've ever used the settings I gave in #2 for Freeview.

Maybe there is something different about Freeview EPG that means they're not suitable?

 

[ccs]

Yes, assuming he uses the box regularly.

I'm not sure if I've ever used the settings I gave in #2 for Freeview.

Maybe there is something different about Freeview EPG that means they're not suitable?

EPG is EPG, where it comes from is irrelevant as far as I'm aware.

 

[BrianTheTechieSnail]

EPG is EPG, where it comes from is irrelevant as far as I'm aware.

I've definitely seen differences in the description text between Sky and Freeview EPGs.
I don't think the relatively minor differences I've seen would mess up my settings though.
I was wondering if there could be differences that can't be seen like maybe some weird control characters in the text.
But it's all really just grasping at straws at this point.

 

[adm]

I get mine off the air using EPG-Refresh.

EPG-Refresh just changes channels so that you can get the EPG over the air. EPG refresh does not get the EPG data.

I have confirmed the original findings on both Freeview and Satellite (Freesat/SKY FTA) over the air EPG data. In this case the EPG on both services is identical for these examples where the uniqueness checking does not work. I had a fully populated 7 day EPG for both services.

 

[ccs]

I've had a play with Robin's Nest, and one or two others, and couldn't get them to work, but the Hairy Biker's did (unless I've done something stupid) ......

 

[Willo3092]

I've found that the autotimers I've set that record duplicates seem to have a colon : in the title.

World War II: The Last Heroes

 

[adm]

I've found that the autotimers I've set that record duplicates seem to have a colon : in the title.

World War II: The Last Heroes

This is not an indicator of repeats, plus...
If I do a search for "World War II: The Last Heroes" it comes up with 43 occurrences. Now consider that I've missed the first broadcast and now want to record the repeat - how do I stop it recording the many other repeats.

A note: this is one occurrence where the EPG data is different on Freeview and Satellite. On satellite the description for part 2 contains the word “theyre” and for terrestrial (Freeview ) the description contains the word “they’re”

In most cases the check for uniqueness works perfectly because each unique episode has a different episode title or description, and the repeat has the same title/description. The check sees that the description is the same for one broadcast occurrence and another broadcast occurrence (not necessarily the first broadcast and the first repeat) and it discards the second occurrence.
In this case ALL the 14(?) different episodes and 12 (?) repeats have exactly the SAME character description for the first 150 characters. The only difference is at the very end of the description the series/episode number is given as, say, S1, Ep3 and this is what identifies the different episodes and is the only indicator of it being a repeat showing.

 

[adm]

I've had a play with Robin's Nest, and one or two others, and couldn't get them to work, but the Hairy Biker's did (unless I've done something stupid) ......

The hairy bikers would work perfectly with the uniqueness testing as each episode is identified diffently in the description.
I suspect your patented method doesn't work for Robins Nest because the rules you have adopted cannot be configured in a single Autotimer. I haven't checked but can you set up more than one restrictive time of day period in a single Autotimer?

 

[ccs]

The hairy bikers would work perfectly with the uniqueness testing as each episode is identified diffently in the description.
I suspect your patented method doesn't work for Robins Nest because the rules you have adopted cannot be configured in a single Autotimer. I haven't checked but can you set up more than one restrictive time of day period in a single Autotimer?

What does "patented method" mean??


..... bearing in mind I was using uniqueness tests on Robin's Nest and others.

 

[adm]

What does "patented method" mean??


..... bearing in mind I was using uniqueness tests on Robin's Nest and others.

OK we all have different ways of using a box I assumed you were still writting about not using the unique filter features that you previously stated that you don't use.

I use Autotimers to set my timers without having necessarily having to trawl through the EPG data nor having to predict what in what time-slot it may be broadcast. For instance I still have an Autotimer that will catch the next series of Dr Who on BBC1/2 without me having to even bother finding out when it will be broadcast. [After that last series with the politically correct token woman lead, the token disabled actor of colour and failed comedian/game show host, none of whom could act, I’m not sure I will be watching all the recorded episodes].

The BBC are infamous for changing the broadcast times on weekly basis for what have since become popular series. An Autotimer set for specific times is likely to miss these program changes.
The BBC still seem to to do this when their important sports take priority so you could set a timer for a certain time/day but still miss the broadcast because you have no knowledge that in two weeks time they have changed the time slot for a week or two because of, say, Wimbledon tennis.

In reality Autotimers works well for me with recording one instance of an episode and rejecting repeats using the unique filters BUT I don’t tend to want to record the type of programs that are causing the problem in this thread. I don’t often encounter program descriptions that are so generic,

However, I would like to know why BOTH unique filter options are broken for the example in this thread. It cannot be for the same reason for each – one filter option detecting everything is the same so rejects all but one episode and the other filter option detecting EVERYTHING (including repeats) are all different and sets timers for everything.

 

[Old Codger]

Thanks for all your replies. Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been fighting the forum software - keep getting a login page popping up when I'm already logged in. Perhaps it doesn't like you having more than one tab open at the same time.

To multiquote messages use the button to the right of "Reply with quote"

Thanks, but while it's possible to select several messages, I can't work out a way of adding them to my own post (old codger, brain going to mush).

You could cut and paste the quoted text in and then use the word quote enclosed in square brackets and the beginning and the word /quote at the end, again enclosed in square brackets

Yes, that works OK - you need to add the username (and message number if possible), though.

I have a very vague recollection that there used to be another option of checking a long description but this crashed the software as often there was no long description to check. Perhaps a fix for this bug has resulted in unexpected behaviour ????????

Yes, my immediate reaction one seeing this oddity for the first time, was 'bug'.

but the Hairy Biker's did (unless I've done something stupid) ......

This example is from the BBC, so the descriptions are fine, as one would expect.
However, I haven't been able to get my test to show programmes from both BBC ONE and BBC ONE HD - perhaps a setting somewhere, although I did uncheck the 'On same service' option.
Where did the 'Yk&Li:' bit on your screenshot come from, I wonder?


In case anybody is wondering why the examples I posted are from such an obscure channel as 'Forces TV' -
well, as its DVB-T2, it's one of the few channels that my trusty Toppy can't record (other than the HD ones of course).

 

[ronand]

Sorry i forgot to add - after selecting the various posts that you wish to quote then click "reply with quote" and you will see them all in your message and you can edit them as required.

 

[adm]

Thanks for all your replies. Sorry for the delay in responding, I've been fighting the forum software - keep getting a login page popping up when I'm already logged in.

Did you have to change your password recently? If so log out and then log back in but make sure the little tick box close to the usename paswod box is ticked. By the Way your new password can be the same as the old password when you get the 30 day forum request to change it.

 

[ccs]

Where did the 'Yk&Li:' bit on your screenshot come from, I wonder?

It's just the local bbc1 sd channel (Yorkshire & North Linconlshire)

 

[ccs]

For instance I still have an Autotimer that will catch the next series of Dr Who on BBC1/2 without me having to even bother finding out when it will be broadcast. [After that last series with the politically correct token woman lead, the token disabled actor of colour and failed comedian/game show host, none of whom could act, I’m not sure I will be watching all the recorded episodes].

The BBC are infamous for changing the broadcast times on weekly basis for what have since become popular series. An Autotimer set for specific times is likely to miss these program changes.
The BBC still seem to to do this when their important sports take priority so you could set a timer for a certain time/day but still miss the broadcast because you have no knowledge that in two weeks time they have changed the time slot for a week or two because of, say, Wimbledon tennis.

I guess you're right, but I can't see the point in looking for a programme which won't be broadcast for another 300 days. Just me, I suppose.

Wimbledon is always an interesting time, but I've never missed any recordings using my patented method.

If anyone want's to use it then there will obviously be huge royalties to pay.