[VU+ Solo2] what is the OE-Alliance core and why is it updated so much?

[Stanman]

it may well be a hobbyist image Stanman , but for you to say they don't have to update if they don't want too ??
what has happened to the good images of the past ?? ie the version 3 808 image which was stable ?
they are no longer stored in your downloads , so yes , they are being FORCED to update.

The space to maintain feeds is not free and the forum cannot afford to have space dedicated to old images.

You can still have an old image, you will just have to manually install plugins and will miss out on enhancement to the image and newer versions of the plugins.



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[Stanman]

with all due respect its not trivial.

plus the seller (sponsor) of my box recommended vix, maybe he shouldnt be doing that, if its only for hobbyists prepared to spend hours reconfiguring boxes on updates.

ALL images are continually improving and adding features - don't believe me, have a try of the others black hole, PL I, open ATV.

The boxes are hobbyists and those who need very rarely updated locked software to ancient versions, there is the providers box.

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[Larry-G]

Andyblac was frankly bored sitting at home off work due to ill health and wanted to do something new, he bought a Vu+ Duo receiver and decided to learn the python programming language, He created a few plugins first such as the softcam manager which now is pretty much a standard part of all images, but that was not enough for him and shortly after this the first ViX image was born initially based on the Vu+ OE images (which is where the ViX name came from (Vu+ image extreme, now called Virtuosso Image extreme)). after a while he discovered that the Vu+ OE based images were not upto his needs and moved to the Pli image as a base for ViX. now that was the first major upgrade and it got him and us at the time a load of flack from users who could not understand the need or want to upgrade the image in this way, but we persevered because we thought the ViX image and it's users deserved better than what was on offer from any one else.

A short while later we decided to offer support for the Clarke tech / xtrend branded receivers (another decision that got us untold grief) but we soldiered on and did it any way. ViX has undergone multiple updates and upgrades over it's life time and every single time there have been a select few who do nothing but complain that in their opinion the image was perfect, it did not need the update. I still know people using V1 and V2 ViX images because they thought they were the best and maybe for them they are, but should we just end it there because they dont want to upgrade or should we as we always have strive to better the image ?. even the ViX 3.0 image which people seem to view with rose coloured spectacles was not the perfect image they like to think it was, and weather you agree or not a lot of receivers today would not have any where near the support they enjoy now if it were not for andyblac pushing the envelope that little bit further every time in his constant strive to better the ViX image.

As for this latest OE-A core update, we could not win no matter what we did, every other time we have forced users to update manually by changing the images name (Zeus, Helios, Apollo) and we were hounded by people screaming, why did we do that ?, why are we forcing people to reflash every time ?. so this time we said to hell with it, we will treat our users as adults and let them decide if they want to upgrade or not, we left multiple announcements on the forum and else where not to use the online update function if you wanted to update, but again users complain.

Personally I welcome all constructive criticism and those who wish to report genuine errors or contribute any way they can to the betterment of the image. The rest of you who just complain for the sake of it are frankly getting me to the point where I say why should we bother putting in thousands of hours of testing and bug fixing into this image on our own time, just so you can complain over and over again ?.

If you do not like the ViX image or the direction it is going in please save us and your selves all this unnecessary the grief and try another image.

 

[Larry-G]

Well I had to update as I was having problems with streaming to pc via webif and I was advised to update to fix it, plus you stopped supporting the feeds.

If you are refering to ViX 3.0 then yes we deleted those image feeds because the image was discontinued

I respect this is coded for free (still I donated)

With all due respect you donated to the upkeep of the forum not the image, no one has ever contributed financially towards the image barring the odd test receiver from manufacturers who wish to maintain ViX image support (after all how can you support a receiver you dont have and cant debug on ?).

my advice is slow down the updates, dont update OE alliance core on minor build updates and when you do update it, update the restore functionality so it can convert old backups to new config file format, this will be technically possible but I respect its probably a pain in the backside to do.

We have tried it every way possible, we used to provide updates only when absolutly 100 percent sure they were ready and this often meant waiting upto and over 6 months between updates, and we got grief for that with users demanding updates now wether ready or not. so we changed to the system we have now where we release updates more frequently and still we get grief ?

I see all the old settings still exist from zeus to helios but yet a zeus backup couldnt be imported to helios even tho the settings still exist. I expect this has caused a fragmented user base because people cannot be bothered to reconfigure their boxes. Maybe I am wrong tho and all vix users are on apollo

Also I assume as a developer you want as many people using your new stuff as possible, so its not good to put barriers in the way.

Updating the OE-A core of the image is not a simple task and one of the side affects is that a settings backup is not cross compatible between OE-A versions, thats just a fact of life you have to live with. you can manually backup some minor system files such as timers.xml and autotimers.xml files, bouquets and some other settings but in all honesty it is far better to get used to setting the receiver up from scratch every now and again.

A lot of users these days have become too spoiled with so called backup images and settings backups and while they are handy they also breed laziness for want of a better word.

you have to remember you bought a hobbyist box (regardless of what the manufacturer tells you to the contrary), and every image you load to your receiver is provided by a group of unpaid amateurs, IE not the multi million pound company and we certainly don't have the budget some one like virgin media or sky have to produce their operating systems. If that is too hard for you to understand then you have bought the wrong receiver for your needs.

 

[Rob van der Does]

....you have to remember you bought a hobbyist box.....

As e.g. sponsor tells you clearly on his site.

 

[chrcoluk]

the sponsor doesnt say that on his ebay ad.

I appreciate now the longer answers, but it still hasnt been explained why the core had to be bumped to 2.3, what was in 2.2 stopping the further development of apollo?

 

[Stanman]

the sponsor doesnt say that on his ebay ad.

I appreciate now the longer answers, but it still hasnt been explained why the core had to be bumped to 2.3, what was in 2.2 stopping the further development of apollo?

In which case flash it back to the factory image and use that buddy?

 

[Larry-G]

the sponsor doesnt say that on his ebay ad.

I appreciate now the longer answers, but it still hasnt been explained why the core had to be bumped to 2.3, what was in 2.2 stopping the further development of apollo?

There were multiple reasons why the core was updated to OE-A 2.3 as rob said, some were library updates, some security updates etc but all were necessary. As to maintaining multiple OE's thats the same as with multiple image lines, and simply that comes down to prioritizing our limited manpower and finances.

Thats why we deleted the feeds for the ViX 3.0 and lower series images and is the same reason why we will eventually do the same for every image barring Apollo or what ever image we will be on at the time. We are not a big multinational corporation but a small group of amateurs working from our own time and expense, we simply cant do every thing and must prioritize what we spend our limited resources on.

 

[Sicilian]

the sponsor doesnt say that on his ebay ad.

Sponsor provides flashing as a free of charge as is service for benefit of customers, some retailers charge upto £10 for this service.

Sponsors add says 'WE WILL PRE-FLASH WITH FIRMWARE IMAGE OF YOUR CHOICE PRIOR TO SHIPPING, SIMPLY EMAIL US YOUR REQUEST ONCE ORDERED!

Footer of ebay listing is a link to T & C's which clearly state: -

IMAGE FLASHING IS PROVIDED AS A FREE 'AS IS' SERVICE, WE DO NOT PROVIDE DIRECT SUPPORT FOR ANY 3RD PARTY LINUX/ENIGMA 2 IMAGE.

I appreciate now the longer answers, but it still hasnt been explained why the core had to be bumped to 2.3, what was in 2.2 stopping the further development of apollo?

We have to upgrade because 2.2 is no longer maintained, therefore no new drivers, Linux kernels, plugins etc...

If your happy to stay with old redundant software please do so.

 

[rossi2000]

what does it matter?
the fact is, its been upgraded to 2.3

many tools have been updated. GCC etc.
if u need to know what theses are and what they do. Google.

 

[Rob van der Does]

I appreciate now the longer answers, but it still hasnt been explained why the core had to be bumped to 2.3, what was in 2.2 stopping the further development of apollo?

The way it works is as follows:
Most of the times, changes to the OE go step-by-step. The resulting image shows if all is fine, or that there are issues.

Sometimes the steps are big. Nothing we can do about that: the world changes and we have to follow.
In that case it is good practise to create a development-branch; images build from there are tested by teams, while 'normal' builds continue to be build from the master branch. Once teams are happy with the development-branch, public-released images will be build from there as well. And that is the moment teams announce the switch-over.
As a result of taking one or more big steps, backward compatibility (in fact 'forward compatibility) of old settings can't possibly be ensured. So to prevent issues it is always the best to start a fresh flashed and setup image on all concerned boxes.
The same is the case when there is a kernel update for a specific box.

Not much we can do about that. It's part of the update game. if you want images on the bleeding edge of new developments, you should follow, albeit not necessary immediately.
You don't have to update, but you should realize that old branches will not be developed anymore, and in due time feeds for old versions will cease to exist. And because all members of all teams will only use the latest version, support for old versions will be (very) limited.

 

[Andy_Hazza]

would like to go back to the 808 build as i found that more stable , where can i find this image judge ?

Should have kept a copy of the image if you liked it. Like Judge says NO ONE IS FORCED TO UPGRADE!!

 

[Andy_Hazza]

Well sadly my question never got answered.

After a bit of googling I believe the OE stuff is like the base code and vix is on top of it.

Also it seems people have been managing to manually backup/restore timers and settings files, if that still works why cant a tool be made to automate that? I didnt really buy my box as a hobby, I brought it as its technically superior to alternatives.

So the question is what was the repercussions to sticking to OE alliance core 2.2? why was 2.3 needed mid apollo build? Given the lack of reply I think its fair to assume it was done simply because its newer and with the attitude if people dont like it tough, but its that sort of attitude which will scare people away.

It also seems its good I picked build 024 given the problems been reported. From a release standpoint its logical to assume later build numbers = more stability, but the entire coding framework was bumped after 24 builds whilst keeping the apollo name.

If its not a hobby for you buddy, you are probably best sticking with Sky or Virgin Media!!

 

[thestoress]

Reminds me of the Skybox F5 generation

 

[nsw9154]

Should have kept a copy of the image if you liked it. Like Judge says NO ONE IS FORCED TO UPGRADE!!

Funny you should mention that Andy I still have a copy of vix 3.808 saved on a External HD in a (files for Solo2 folder) from when I 1st bought my Solo2 as a back up from when I upgraded to Zeus

 

[chrcoluk]

ok thanks for the proper reason explaining about 2.2 no longer been supported and plugin support, I accept that.

Not sure the reasoning behind the posts telling me to use another image tho. I never said I hate ViX.

 

[pac2000]

Even Windows Operating Systems Can't Restore Settings From XP/Vista To Windows 8.1... It Requires A Clean Install... Then Completely Reconfiguring (Depending On Your Setup) And Install Every Program That You Require... This Is A Fact Of Life...

I Generally Stay With A Stable Vix Image... One That Does Everything I Require And Doesn't Fail... I'm Currently On Apollo 008, And Usually Only Update When Things Start To Go Wrong...

Also, It's A Good Idea To Make A Complete Image Backup After You've Configured Your Box... Mine Only Takes Up 69MB On The Hard Drive...

 

[Ojustaboo]

how long it takes differs from person to person, I have to go through all the detailed settings pages, write them down what they are, and then go through them all again on a restore.

Then its plugins (which seem down on apollo, will post in new thread) and timers etc.

Please explain why OE 2.3 is required on apollo and it couldnt wait.

Dont forget you can do a screengrab.

Just open your first settings menu

On your tablet/laptop or whatever, open web browser and go to navigate to

http://192.168.0.1/grab?format=jpg

replacing 192.168.0.1 with the address of your box and you will get a pic of the tv screen on your browser. Simply save the image, go to the next settings page on your box, hit browser refresh and you have the next screen shown.

Far quicker to do than it's taken me to type.

Then you have permanent pics of your settings to refer to anytime you need.

 

[nsw9154]

Also, It's A Good Idea To Make A Complete Image Backup After You've Configured Your Box... Mine Only Takes Up 69MB On The Hard Drive...

I still have every back up and image back up since I purchased my Duo2 at the beginning of July Apollo 8 and my LX3 from Apollo3

 

[chrcoluk]

Even Windows Operating Systems Can't Restore Settings From XP/Vista To Windows 8.1... It Requires A Clean Install... Then Completely Reconfiguring (Depending On Your Setup) And Install Every Program That You Require... This Is A Fact Of Life...

I Generally Stay With A Stable Vix Image... One That Does Everything I Require And Doesn't Fail... I'm Currently On Apollo 008, And Usually Only Update When Things Start To Go Wrong...

Also, It's A Good Idea To Make A Complete Image Backup After You've Configured Your Box... Mine Only Takes Up 69MB On The Hard Drive...

ok but thats every few years not every few months not really a comparison