[GiGaBlue QUAD] [NOT QUAD+] recording problem

[seame]

just don't update your boot loader and you should be fine.

I updated my bootloader about 6 weeks ago. I had one strange incident when the box just froze and wouldn't respond to anything, but after a reflash its been running 24/7 since with no faults.

 

[WOODWARD395]

as I said its on their forum as I had no need to return mine the link was of no importance to me. here is a link to the English section
http://www.gigablue-support.com/index.php?page=Board&boardID=2
you may find it in there or you can do as I did and use Google translate to read the posts may take some time as it did me but it is there not sure if its official as Google translator is not perfect at translating.

This is official from GB themselves. I asked them is there a problem with boot loaders.
we are aware of the problem, work is in progress.
same answer for transcoding on beta images.

 

[richardinspain]

This is official from GB themselves. I asked them is there a problem with boot loaders.
we are aware of the problem, work is in progress.
same answer for transcoding on beta images.

Yes we know, that is what they told us in the reply to our emails we sent them and it refers to the drivers

 

[Joe_90]

as I said its on their forum as I had no need to return mine the link was of no importance to me. here is a link to the English section
http://www.gigablue-support.com/index.php?page=Board&boardID=2
you may find it in there or you can do as I did and use Google translate to read the posts may take some time as it did me but it is there not sure if its official as Google translator is not perfect at translating.

This is official from GB themselves. I asked them is there a problem with boot loaders.
we are aware of the problem, work is in progress.
same answer for transcoding on beta images.

What specifically makes you think that the boot loader is the source of the problem? The boot loader has been changed to initialise the flash memory differently to provide a larger kernel area for new images and also to modify the way the image is booted so it loads faster. It wouldn't directly affect the way recordings are played back, nor the way temperatures are reported. Those are functions of the loaded image and kernel and drivers.

 

[Ojustaboo]

What specifically makes you think that the boot loader is the source of the problem? The boot loader has been changed to initialise the flash memory differently to provide a larger kernel area for new images and also to modify the way the image is booted so it loads faster. It wouldn't directly affect the way recordings are played back, nor the way temperatures are reported. Those are functions of the loaded image and kernel and drivers.

What was weird for me is that versions that worked 100% fine before I updated the bootloader, no longer worked after.

I know it doesn't make sense, I even reverted to an earlier bootloader.

But 5 mins before I initially updated, my box was 100% fine.

Since updating it has never worked until installing the fan.

 

[WOODWARD395]

The boot loader loads the image and boots the kernel telling it to initiate after that the boot loader is surplus to requirements and has nothing to do but wait for another reboot. the problem is the way it tells the kernel to operate and initiate. Basically if you build a tower of bricks and the base (bootloader) is unstable the rest of the tower will be wobbly and may collapse.
And yes it is a software problem each part is designed to fit together like a jigsaw if one part does not fit you cannot finish the jigsaw.
SIMPLES.

That's why some people are not having any problems with their box's after updating the bootloader they are using different images and each image comes with its own drivers for that image so they fit together better.
Don't try and make it more complicated than it is.

 

[Larry-G]

using different images and each image comes with its own drivers for that image so they fit together better.
Don't try and make it more complicated than it is.

Sorry but thats a load of crap, drivers are made and released by the manufacturer and independent of the image exactly the same as the bootloader.

 

[WOODWARD395]

not to my knowledge. think you need to do a bit more research before you say crap.

 

[rossi2000]

they are using different images and each image comes with its own drivers for that image so they fit together better.

incorrect, ALL images use the same drivers.

 

[WOODWARD395]

in formation from gigablue site when question asked
I would recommend to take the drivers that come with your image (when you flash, they are always included!). It is possible to manually change drivers, but this is limited because there were sometimes changes in drivers or the image interfaces which makes them not fully compatible. The bootloader does not force you to use a special driver or image. You can also install the "old" OpenMips 4.1.
also when you load plugins for a specific image it sometimes contains a driver for that specific image that's why its designed for that image. hence some images contain different interfaces and kernels.

 

[judge]

in formation from gigablue site when question asked
I would recommend to take the drivers that come with your image (when you flash, they are always included!). It is possible to manually change drivers, but this is limited because there were sometimes changes in drivers or the image interfaces which makes them not fully compatible. The bootloader does not force you to use a special driver or image. You can also install the "old" OpenMips 4.1.
also when you load plugins for a specific image it sometimes contains a driver for that specific image that's why its designed for that image. hence some images contain different drivers and kernels.
I believe you are referring to the box drivers only which don't change unless you update them same as bootloader.

Just another fob off grom GigaBlue.

 

[rossi2000]

in formation from gigablue site when question asked
I would recommend to take the drivers that come with your image (when you flash, they are always included!). It is possible to manually change drivers, but this is limited because there were sometimes changes in drivers or the image interfaces which makes them not fully compatible. The bootloader does not force you to use a special driver or image. You can also install the "old" OpenMips 4.1.
also when you load plugins for a specific image it sometimes contains a driver for that specific image that's why its designed for that image. hence some images contain different interfaces and kernels.

most of that is nonsense apart from the bit where it mentions image interfaces, enigma2 can vary from image to image.

 

[WOODWARD395]

The boot loader loads the image and boots the kernel telling it to initiate after that the boot loader is surplus to requirements and has nothing to do but wait for another reboot. the problem is the way it tells the kernel to operate and initiate. Basically if you build a tower of bricks and the base (bootloader) is unstable the rest of the tower will be wobbly and may collapse.
And yes it is a software problem each part is designed to fit together like a jigsaw if one part does not fit you cannot finish the jigsaw.
SIMPLES.

That's why some people are not having any problems with their box's after updating the bootloader they are using different images and each image comes with its own drivers for that image so they fit together better.
Don't try and make it more complicated than it is.

SORRY Must apologise I meant to say interfaces and kernels not drivers.

but I am still correct if you use certain images the drivers are more compatible with the interfaces and kernels and you get no problems.

 

[Joe_90]

The boot loader loads the image and boots the kernel telling it to initiate after that the boot loader is surplus to requirements and has nothing to do but wait for another reboot. the problem is the way it tells the kernel to operate and initiate. Basically if you build a tower of bricks and the base (bootloader) is unstable the rest of the tower will be wobbly and may collapse.
And yes it is a software problem each part is designed to fit together like a jigsaw if one part does not fit you cannot finish the jigsaw.
SIMPLES.

That's why some people are not having any problems with their box's after updating the bootloader they are using different images and each image comes with its own drivers for that image so they fit together better.
Don't try and make it more complicated than it is.

We're not actually building a tower of bricks here. The bootloader initiates the kernel load and after that plays no part in the operation of the box. I had asked around the forum about the extent of the bootloader code and it would seem to be limited to basically sizing the partitions in flash to accommodate the kernel and possibly in setting the initial clock speeds. The drivers, as I understand it, are supplied by the manufacturer and built to enigma2 standards so that each image interfaces with them in a standard way. Different images may use slightly different features of the driver or offer fewer or greater configuration possibilities in their menu, but basically the manufacturer driver interacts with the hardware and there is a well documented stream of posts on various forums awaiting an update from Gigablue for this Quad re-booting issue.

It is because software is complex and imperfect that issues like these arise. There are many interactions between different teams building code with many different objectives. It is not simple.

 

[Rob van der Does]

If that's indeed their answer they get a high mark for complete incompetence. IMHO not a very wise way to treat customers......
All images use the same driver, and there's only one source: GB themselves.
And as a driver is compiled against a specific kernel, all images use the same kernel.

Anyway: that answer is a clear sign of denying both there responsibility and the issues (albeit reported by many). And that in itself is an even clearer sign of the issues not being addressed at all.

Happy GB time :thumbsup:

 

[WOODWARD395]

We're not actually building a tower of bricks here. The bootloader initiates the kernel load and after that plays no part in the operation of the box. I had asked around the forum about the extent of the bootloader code and it would seem to be limited to basically sizing the partitions in flash to accommodate the kernel and possibly in setting the initial clock speeds. The drivers, as I understand it, are supplied by the manufacturer and built to enigma2 standards so that each image interfaces with them in a standard way. Different images may use slightly different features of the driver or offer fewer or greater configuration possibilities in their menu, but basically the manufacturer driver interacts with the hardware and there is a well documented stream of posts on various forums awaiting an update from Gigablue for this Quad re-booting issue.

It is because software is complex and imperfect that issues like these arise. There are many interactions between different teams building code with many different objectives. It is not simple.

just one question what exactly is a kernel module.

 

[WOODWARD395]

Thought I would post this so people could understand why their box's are crashing as I have been told I talk crap and did apologise when I believed I may have been wrong as so many of your colleague's convinced me I was well to prove I was not I done some research and I was 100% correct in what I said.
about kernel modules and drivers.
they work as I stated who talks crap. if you need any more information I will research it and get back to you.

lets stick to facts and not assumption's and what people tell you do a little research it often helps.

Linux Loadable Kernel Module HOWTO

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2. Introduction to Linux Loadable Kernel Modules

If you want to add code to a Linux kernel, the most basic way to do that is to add some source files to the kernel source tree and recompile the kernel. In fact, the kernel configuration process consists mainly of choosing which files to include in the kernel to be compiled.

But you can also add code to the Linux kernel while it is running. A chunk of code that you add in this way is called a loadable kernel module. These modules can do lots of things, but they typically are one of three things: 1) device drivers; 2) filesystem drivers; 3) system calls. The kernel isolates certain functions, including these, especially well so they don't have to be intricately wired into the rest of the kernel.


2.1. Terminology

Loadable kernel modules are often called just kernel modules or just modules, but those are rather misleading terms because there are lots of kinds of modules in the world and various pieces built into the base kernel can easily be called modules. We use the term loadable kernel module or LKM for the particular kinds of modules this HOWTO is about.

Some people think of LKMs as outside of the kernel. They speak of LKMs communicating with the kernel. This is a mistake; LKMs (when loaded) are very much part of the kernel. The correct term for the part of the kernel that is bound into the image that you boot, i.e. all of the kernel except the LKMs, is "base kernel." LKMs communicate with the base kernel.

In some other operating systems, the equivalent of a Linux LKM is called a "kernel extension."

Now what is "Linux"? Well, first of all, the name is used for two entirely different things, and only one of them is really relevant here:


1.The kernel and related items distributed as a package by Linus Torvalds.


2.A class of operating systems that traditionally are based on the Linux kernel.



Only the first of these is really useful in discussing LKMs. But even choosing this definition, people are often confused when it comes to LKMs. Is an LKM part of Linux or not? Though an LKM is always part of the kernel, it is part of Linux if it is distributed in the Linux kernel package, and not otherwise. Thus, if you have loaded into your kernel a device driver LKM that came with your device, you can't, strictly speaking, say that your kernel is Linux. Rather, it's a slight extension of Linux. As you might expect, it is commonplace to use the name "Linux" approximately -- Lots of variations on Linux are in use and are widely distributed, and referred to as "Linux." In this document, though, we will stick to the strictest definition in the interest of clarity.


2.2. History of Loadable Kernel Modules

LKMs did not exist in Linux in the beginning. Anything we use an LKM for today was built into the base kernel at kernel build time instead. LKMs have been around at least since Linux 1.2 (1995).

Device drivers and such were always quite modular, though. When LKMs were invented, only a small amount of work was needed on these modules to make them buildable as LKMs. However, it had to be done on each and every one, so it took some time. Since about 2000, virtually everything that makes sense as an LKM has at least had the option of being an LKM.


2.3. The Case For Loadable Kernel Modules

You often have a choice between putting a module into the kernel by loading it as an LKM or binding it into the base kernel. LKMs have a lot of advantages over binding into the base kernel and I recommend them wherever possible.

One advantage is that you don't have to rebuild your kernel as often. This saves you time and spares you the possibility of introducing an error in rebuilding and reinstalling the base kernel. Once you have a working base kernel, it is good to leave it untouched as long as possible.

Another advantage is that LKMs help you diagnose system problems. A bug in a device driver which is bound into the kernel can stop your system from booting at all. And it can be really hard to tell which part of the base kernel caused the trouble. If the same device driver is an LKM, though, the base kernel is up and running before the device driver even gets loaded. If your system dies after the base kernel is up and running, it's an easy matter to track the problem down to the trouble-making device driver and just not load that device driver until you fix the problem.

LKMs can save you memory, because you have to have them loaded only when you're actually using them. All parts of the base kernel stay loaded all the time. And in real storage, not just virtual storage.

LKMs are much faster to maintain and debug. What would require a full reboot to do with a filesystem driver built into the kernel, you can do with a few quick commands with LKMs. You can try out different parameters or even change the code repeatedly in rapid succession, without waiting for a boot.

LKMs are not slower, by the way, than base kernel modules. Calling either one is simply a branch to the memory location where it resides. [1]

Sometimes you have to build something into the base kernel instead of making it an LKM. Anything that is necessary to get the system up far enough to load LKMs must obviously be built into the base kernel. For example, the driver for the disk drive that contains the root filesystem must be built into the base kernel.


2.4. What LKMs Can't Do

There is a tendency to think of LKMs like user space programs. They do share a lot of their properties, but LKMs are definitely not user space programs. They are part of the kernel. As such, they have free run of the system and can easily crash it.


2.5. What LKMs Are Used For

There are six main things LKMs are used for:


•Device drivers. A device driver is designed for a specific piece of hardware. The kernel uses it to communicate with that piece of hardware without having to know any details of how the hardware works. For example, there is a device driver for ATA disk drives. There is one for NE2000 compatible Ethernet cards. To use any device, the kernel must contain a device driver for it.


•Filesystem drivers. A filesystem driver interprets the contents of a filesystem (which is typically the contents of a disk drive) as files and directories and such. There are lots of different ways of storing files and directories and such on disk drives, on network servers, and in other ways. For each way, you need a filesystem driver. For example, there's a filesystem driver for the ext2 filesystem type used almost universally on Linux disk drives. There is one for the MS-DOS filesystem too, and one for NFS.


•System calls. User space programs use system calls to get services from the kernel. For example, there are system calls to read a file, to create a new process, and to shut down the system. Most system calls are integral to the system and very standard, so are always built into the base kernel (no LKM option). But you can invent a system call of your own and install it as an LKM. Or you can decide you don't like the way Linux does something and override an existing system call with an LKM of your own.


•Network drivers. A network driver interprets a network protocol. It feeds and consumes data streams at various layers of the kernel's networking function. For example, if you want an IPX link in your network, you would use the IPX driver.


•TTY line disciplines. These are essentially augmentations of device drivers for terminal devices.


•Executable interpreters. An executable interpreter loads and runs an executable. Linux is designed to be able to run executables in various formats, and each must have its own executable interpreter.



Notes

[1]
For the pedantic, see Section 10.7.




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Preface Making Loadable Kernel Modules

 

[judge]

Think you maybe taking the 'Sorry but thats a load of crap' comment a bit too seriously and maybe the wrong way...

 

[WOODWARD395]

Water off a ducks back m8
its a problem I have when I know I am correct I may not explain myself very well and do get things mixed up now and then its pure frustration no offence to anyone after a stroke I find it hard and frustrating to get across what I actually mean and do spit my dummy out now and again.:baby:
I have done most things wrong myself. my many cockups I am sure I can pass what knowledge I have on.
what is frustrating I have been through exactly what everyone on this POST has been through box crashing freezing bad recordings overheating I read everything I possibly could on the subject more than half I cannot remember I read so much. To cut a long story short I cured all my problems caused by the new bootloader install. my box now runs perfect with no issues. It will stay that way now until GB sort themselves out.

 

[judge]

Water off a ducks back m8
its a problem I have when I know I am correct I may not explain myself very well and do get things mixed up now and then its pure frustration no offence to anyone after a stroke I find it hard and frustrating to get across what I actually mean and do spit my dummy out now and again.:baby:
I have done most things wrong myself. my many cockups I am sure I can pass what knowledge I have on.
what is frustrating I have been through exactly what everyone on this POST has been through box crashing freezing bad recordings overheating I read everything I possibly could on the subject more than half I cannot remember I read so much.

There's lots of crap in this thread. Only fact is that GB have fcuked up on kernel & driver releases & they're still fobbing users off with ridiculous excuses.

To cut a long story short I cured all my problems caused by the new bootloader install. my box now runs perfect with no issues. It will stay that way now until GB sort themselves out.

Without having to read all posts again, what box, bootloader & image are you now using?